Pro Con - Athlete Database/ID cards

Discussion in 'Discussing the Cheerleading Industry' started by drewpate, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    King Harrison
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    as for the garbage in theory years of people being in the program would eventually weed out the bad information. so there is that senior who cheered one extra year when the program starts up... would they have cheered anyway without a system? yes. but the child who registered for cheerleading back when they were 8 will have their information in to begin with. so years of use will not only refine the system but help weed out all the starting bad information. i think you operate under the assumption that once the system starts if the data is bad there is no way to clean it up. but by the nature of cheerleading (that athletes eventually age out and new ones come in to replace them) the data every year can get better and better.

    it is not about having a perfect system to start with... but by having a system that can grow and transform and get better with time.

     
  2. Mclovin

    Mclovin Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I am not understanding why this is so impossible to implement with cheer, but is used in every other legitimate sport out there???

    A parent sends in a $20-$30 registration fee, a CERTIFIED birth certificate, and a current photo taken by their current gym. The USASF hires someone to enter all this into a database and validate the birth certificates. Schools do this every day. Why is it so impossible for us??
     
  3. imrichhowboutu

    imrichhowboutu Guest

    can we get an i agree button?? :thumbs up:
     
  4. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    the theory is that a gym that does cheat will just cheat when they send in their birth certificates (forged). yes someone somewhere can fake a birth certificate. but you cant stop all cheating, and no system is full proof. i think you have to look at the practicality of it all. will you prevent more cheating AND start a good database of tracking by doing this system? yes. can someone cheat it? sure. but by the law of diminishing returns if you go too much harder trying to verify everything you are gonna cost more money than the results you are gonna get out.
     
  5. imrichhowboutu

    imrichhowboutu Guest

    and before the fee is questioned, im sure if properly positioned to the parents, they will be in favor of the system and the fee associated with it. If $20 makes the sport more 'fair' then whats not to like about the system... in the end its about what is best for the kids...

    although i do recall my parents forging my birth certificate when i played little league when i was 10, but that was not really that serious since we played the same 4 teams every week and i sucked... like really really bad... if anything the coaches would want to make me 10 years older so i couldn't play anymore.
     
  6. CharlotteASMom

    CharlotteASMom There are Cheeropedia articles about me!

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    If we are trying to 100% elminate cheating then no...I'm not sure a system exists or that we can even come up with one.

    What these type systems do is hold gyms accountable for their athletes. There will be a paper trail that says "We certify that this athlete is eligible". My earlier point was that to make this work like other sports do is to have repercussions for giving false information. This makes the system work.

    As said....schools, soccer, football. baseball, etc. all do this type of certifcation. It's not a big leap...
     
  7. CharlotteASMom

    CharlotteASMom There are Cheeropedia articles about me!

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    LOL What you said....
     
  8. Jessica

    Jessica Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    An idea came to me while reading this about the whole getting it started topic...

    What if some of the larger competitions (cheersport, NCA, UCA, Super Nationals, Worlds, etc) had a booth set up (say next year or even into the next year) as an opportunity to become part of the system. USASF could have staff (or subcontracted staff) there to verify (and scan in) birth certificates/drivers license/passport/ some sort of gov issued ID. Then the athlete and parent would fill out and sign forms and the staffer would take their picture and do what ever else needs to be done.

    There could be some sort of monetary incentive to do it at a competition rather then waiting untill the next season to send it in. Maybe only 20 $ instead of 25$ or something like that. (Or vice versa if USASF would rather people submit their info my mail etc)

    It could work and maybe satisfy the idea of people forging docs...
     
  9. cheermom668

    cheermom668 I'm new. Don't Hurt Me

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    $20 is nothing....I have to pay $48 every year to register my other daughter with USAG or she doesn't get to compete in the gymnastics competitions.

    Eventually there will be less and less "forging" of info if you have been tracking the info from the time the athlete is 8 years old...are parents really going to be thinking about changing birthdates, etc, when their kids are just starting out? I seriously doubt it.
     
  10. ohkcheery

    ohkcheery They call me Susie

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    Wow, I missed a lot during this snow storm.
    I just read through the pages I missed and have come to be a little confused.
    1. I really believe the information can NOT be entered by a gym/family member/anyone of any relation to the athlete. PERIOD. This would eliminate any bias and/or direct line to cheat.
    2. If something similar is occurring in MANY other sports (people keep referencing soccer, though I know of at least 3 more sports that have the same system) it could be implemented in cheerleading. Soccer is a much larger sporting universe than cheerleading, so if it can be done there (and it can - my ex boyfriend is on the U-23 national team and I have friends who are playing pro ball right now and they are ALL tracked under US Soccer), I have no doubt it would work with cheer.
    3. Cost wise, it would be difficult to assess. A certain number of people would be needed at first to help enter data (which does not need to be a huge salary or money pit), but after the system continues to run itself, the staff can be cut back to include key personnel (designers/programmers). If the information stays in the system and only needs to be updated each year (not re-sending in all the papers, etc) there is no reason to keep all the excess staff on board all year.
    4. If raising the cost of all stars will deter parents and future cheerleaders from the sport.. so will the abundance of cheating. Each competition I see more posts/complaints of "they had an athlete that was __ years old on a team for __" or "that athlete isn't even the right age" or "they aren't even on that team in the first place!.." First of all, at least around here (I won't and can't speak for many others), all star cheerleading is EXPENSIVE and I'd say almost a majority of parents who have their children in the sport aren't going into bankruptcy or even close to it because of it. It's a privilege and can be taken away on a moments notice.. and even though there are girls who fund raise a majority of their expenses, there are 15 more who don't. Around here (and it's even present on the boards - check the Random forum), all star cheer is for girls/guys who's parents make decent money; the girls I've cheered with wear Ed Hardy or Twenty8Twelve, have the newest and latest and greatest phone (iPhone/Droid/Blackberry - seriously, a 10 year old with any of the above is ridiculous anyway) or laptop, etc. That being said, obviously it's different all over the country and with each individual situation, but going into all star you should have some idea of much it costs - though I personally think any parent complaining about a $20 fee/whatever it may be for a tag to prevent cheating and streamline the sport would be crazy. Parents (especially those who have multiple kids) might even be expecting something like this/wondering why it didn't exist before if they have kids playing soccer, hockey, or any of the above fore-mentioned sports.

    I just want to say I LOVE this discussion and can't wait to see where it ends up going in the future :)
     
  11. Level5Mom

    Level5Mom Best Parent

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    I'd also like to add that as part of the annual fee for USA Hockey you get a monthly magazine sent to your mailbox. It makes me feel like I'm getting something for my $25 each year. I'm sure USASF could do something similar to make it a good "value".
     
  12. Mclovin

    Mclovin Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    The bottom line is they could make this happen if they want to, relatively inexpensively. And far as the logistics of it all, why not contact the USAG or US Soccer and ask them how they do it??
     
  13. imrichhowboutu

    imrichhowboutu Guest

    Thats exactly how i see it. While someone might get away with doing something for one year. No one will be thinking about who they need to 'cheat with' for the following year or in years after.

    Also, i doubt this system would cost $50 a year per athlete.

    and the usasf would probably love to charge us each an extra $5 and send us all a magazine out quarterly