All-Star Pyramids... Too Much, Too Little, Or Just Right?

[cheeromgbre]

what is a paper doll?

 

[xpressjag]

Only teams pyramids I truly enjoy are Gym Tyme, Top Gun, Spirit of Texas, Cheerforce/SoCal Elite and sometimes California All Stars (years passed, not so much this year). Most teams put to much into them and they seem to lose my interest or just become rag dolls being thrown around for 8 count after 8 count.

 

[cheerislove8]

what is a paper doll?

WCSS last pyramid structure this year. A bunch of extended heel stretches connected

 

[socratesofcheer]

I'm curious to see what others think about some of the new pyramids we are seeing these days. I am all for some of the very creative innovation that is taking place, but recently I have seen some pyramids that I think are just too much.

What I mean by that is that it seems like some teams are trying to do too much during the pyramid section. People flipping all over the place so much that the pyramid never seems to establish itself for more than a second.

I am all for creative transitions in pyramids, but I think there comes a time when you are trying to do too much... and this year it seems like many squads are just trying to do too much and it takes away from the beauty of this skill. I'm more for creative transitions with not too much going on... the KISS principle really... Keep It Simple Stupid. Am I alone on this?

A pyramid is one of the very last ways for a team to separate themselves through difficulty and creativity.

Tumbling is tumbling and most teams are similar to one another. There may be a few standing fulls, a few standing handsprings to doubles etc. Is WC going to beat CEA because they have 21 doubles and CEA has 18? Nah

Stunts are very similar, people do full ups and tic toc variations. How many ways can you tic toc?

Baskets are all the same, when was the last time you saw a team do an innovative squad basket series.

Jumps are jumps, is it really cool and new to do 8 "hits" before your tuck.

But pyramids can be completely different and really set a team apart from the rest of the division. Look for this section to become the determining factor in routines in the very near future.

 

[King]

I look forward to 5 eight counts of jumps... in a row....

 

[King]

A pyramid is one of the very last ways for a team to separate themselves through difficulty and creativity.

Tumbling is tumbling and most teams are similar to one another. There may be a few standing fulls, a few standing handsprings to doubles etc. Is WC going to beat CEA because they have 21 doubles and CEA has 18? Nah

Stunts are very similar, people do full ups and tic toc variations. How many ways can you tic toc?

Baskets are all the same, when was the last time you saw a team do an innovative squad basket series.

Jumps are jumps, is it really cool and new to do 8 "hits" before your tuck.

But pyramids can be completely different and really set a team apart from the rest of the division. Look for this section to become the determining factor in routines in the very near future.

You know, I will agree. This might be one of the last great frontiers of cheer. The rest is mostly on execution and determined skills... pyramids might be one of the last places we can really explore and change things up. If nothing else maybe let some creativity here win over some of the same old same old?

 

[Drkilluzionz]

Level 4 and 5 pyramids that just keep tucking back and forth make me slightly nauseous...I wan't someone to gasp and smile simultaneously when they watch my pyramids lol

 

[Underestimated]

right now..
im satisfied w/ Rays Orange pyramid! <3

 

[tgfam]

A pyramid is one of the very last ways for a team to separate themselves through difficulty and creativity.

Tumbling is tumbling and most teams are similar to one another. There may be a few standing fulls, a few standing handsprings to doubles etc. Is WC going to beat CEA because they have 21 doubles and CEA has 18? Nah

Stunts are very similar, people do full ups and tic toc variations. How many ways can you tic toc?

Baskets are all the same, when was the last time you saw a team do an innovative squad basket series.

Jumps are jumps, is it really cool and new to do 8 "hits" before your tuck.

But pyramids can be completely different and really set a team apart from the rest of the division. Look for this section to become the determining factor in routines in the very near future.

I disagree just a little on this. Yes, I agree that when you break the individual elements apart, each one doesn't leave a lot of room for variation. However, I believe what defines a good routine from year to year are is how the routine is built around these elements and the transitions that take place between each. I don't think that pyramids alone will be the thing that sets teams apart. It will be the beauty of the coreography of the routine and how prestinely it is executed that will continue to set times apart... IMHO.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I disagree just a little on this. Yes, I agree that when you break the individual elements apart, each one doesn't leave a lot of room for variation. However, I believe what defines a good routine from year to year are is how the routine is built around these elements and the transitions that take place between each. I don't think that pyramids alone will be the thing that sets teams apart. It will be the beauty of the coreography of the routine and how prestinely it is executed that will continue to set times apart... IMHO.

You are correct to some degree. Obviously a team that has perfect execution will generally win, even with slightly less skill. However, when teams are fairly evenly matched a pyramid could be the deciding factor. I believe in the very near future you will see that section of the routine as one where the coaches put a lot more emphasis than in years past.

 

[King]

Think of it this way: Let us say that Top Gun has 21 standing handspring doubles. Cheer Athletics has 20 standing handspring doubles. Is there much skill difference between 20 and 21? Not really. Skill wise if executed the same they will be similar. If choreography plays a roll on what scoresheet will 20 and 21 standing handspring doubles score that different? Sure a lil play for preferring one over the other... but HOW much seperation on any scoresheet will a couple other flip de do's in between the standing handspring doubles give a team?

Now pyramids there is no set as to what scores and how. You gotta flip. Gotta have a few. The rest is all up to you. And most pyramids nowadays are NOT that intricate. A few shining unique examples, but mostly its par for the course. Where their ways for a team to really differentiate themselves they will fine. Why not pyramids?

 

[tgfam]

Both good points. I can def. see how pyramids will be an area for teams to excel. Perhaps this will be where point differential will have the most impact. However, I have seen two relatively good teams compete, where both hit on all of the other elements, but one has a better pyramid than the other... yet the one with the better pyramid lost. Why, because the overall coreography of the routine was simply better... everything transitioned better.

Actually, Kingston made a good point in that pyramids have no real set way to score, outside of the flip and structure requirments. But if we are going to look at it that way, then in truth, the difference between really good teams may be pyramid, but even more so will be the dance/motions section. That secion has an even more "open for interpretation" standard. So by that... can we say that when two good teams who have similar skill sets and execution who max out in all the other elements will be determined by who has the better dance section?

 

[King]

Both good points. I can def. see how pyramids will be an area for teams to excel. Perhaps this will be where point differential will have the most impact. However, I have seen two relatively good teams compete, where both hit on all of the other elements, but one has a better pyramid than the other... yet the one with the better pyramid lost. Why, because the overall coreography of the routine was simply better... everything transitioned better.

Actually, Kingston made a good point in that pyramids have no real set way to score, outside of the flip and structure requirments. But if we are going to look at it that way, then in truth, the difference between really good teams may be pyramid, but even more so will be the dance/motions section. That secion has an even more "open for interpretation" standard. So by that... can we say that when two good teams who have similar skill sets and execution who max out in all the other elements will be determined by who has the better dance section?

I wont disagree with that either. My only problem with dances is lots of time 'cute' choreography ideas can out do actual dance execution. So the choreographer won.. not the team.

 

[tgfam]

I wont disagree with that either. My only problem with dances is lots of time 'cute' choreography ideas can do actual dance creation. So the choreographer won.. not the team.

I can see that feeling... kind of like the first "Bring it on" movie... lol... SPIRIT FINGERS!!!!

Although, aren't all routines a win for the choreographer, but also a win for the team executing? I know very few teams where the team itself coreographs the routine.

 

[King]

I can see that feeling... kind of like the first "Bring it on" movie... lol... SPIRIT FINGERS!!!!

Although, aren't all routines a win for the choreographer, but also a win for the team executing? I know very few teams where the team itself coreographs the routine.

yes and no. good choreography should highlight your skills and abilities, not replace your skills and abilities. if your dance has a fun and cute idea it can literally trump your execution. so even half baked execution of a fun cute idea would go over well.