Release Height Interpretation?

[CGAcheer]

Clarification: If the release move passes above extended arm level, it will be considered a toss, and must follow the appropriate “Toss” rules. To determine the height of a release move, at the highest point of the release, the distance from the hips to the extended arms of the bases will be used to determine the height of the release. If that distance is greater than the length of the top person’s legs, it will be considered a toss or dismount and must follow the appropriate “Toss” or “Dismount” rules.

So given that Clarification- How do you really determine? We were given a warning this weekend, the judges video was washed out, you couldn't see arms or legs, so they were guessing based off of the banner height. But even given a clear video, how do you really determine? if its a toe touch release do you measure to the pointed toe? Do you measure from the outstretched fingers of the back spot? What if the bases never extend their arms in that stunt, do you just guess their arm length?

Here is a screen shot from one of our Sr 3 videos (from below prep level and caught at prep level)

even with measuring from this photo the length of her legs appears different. Do you go with the longer leg or the shorter leg? given the difference how do you know either is accurate? The length of the bases legs since they are straight up and down and not at varied angles like the flyers should be accurate but they are generally taller?

I measured her right leg from the bottom of the shorts to about mid sole of the shoe and from the highest finger tip to the bottom of the shorts and they are essentially the same.

Depending on how you measure and which limbs you measure this particular stunt can range from about 4 inches illegal to about 5 inches legal.

Is this going to be a tie/inconclusive goes to runner type rule?

Andre, RulesGuy, ASCheerMan What are your thoughts on this?

 

[championprincess]

It's based on where the fliers feet would be if her legs were straight underneath her and if the bases arms were fully extended.

Is it an exact science, no. Is it still obvious when it's really broken, yes. I have warned on it dozens of times, and deducted on it very few, however, if the intent is to restrict the height and therefore protect those athletes, it does the trick.

 

[CGAcheer]

It's based on where the fliers feet would be if her legs were straight underneath her and if the bases arms were fully extended.

Is it an exact science, no. Is it still obvious when it's really broken, yes. I have warned on it dozens of times, and deducted on it very few, however, if the intent is to restrict the height and therefore protect those athletes, it does the trick.

so the one in the picture, legal or illegal?

 

[championprincess]

I'm sorry, I'm not able to see it. Can you send it in a PM?

 

[CGAcheer]

hopefully the picture shows up this time- championprincess, RulesGuy, Andre

 

[drewpate]

hopefully the picture shows up this time- championprincess, RulesGuy, Andre

Pictures not the clearest, but I would probably warn or deduct this myself. It seems pretty clear to me that it goes past extension, but short of having a measuring stick or software that can determine distance in a picture, it's hard to
I had a similar stunt but in prone position last year that I know was illegal at least in one or two comps but only warned once. My plan was to argue that since the flier was prone you couldn't see her legs so its impossible for you to tell me it was illegal or legal lol, but it never came up. It's hard to give deductions on what is a judgement call.

 

[championprincess]

Assuming this is the absolute top of the release, I believe that it is illegal. At this height I would probably warn, but any higher, would deduct.

 

[CGAcheer]

Pictures not the clearest, but I would probably warn or deduct this myself. It seems pretty clear to me that it goes past extension, but short of having a measuring stick or software that can determine distance in a picture, it's hard to
I had a similar stunt but in prone position last year that I know was illegal at least in one or two comps but only warned once. My plan was to argue that since the flier was prone you couldn't see her legs so its impossible for you to tell me it was illegal or legal lol, but it never came up. It's hard to give deductions on what is a judgement call.

This is much better than the video the judges had, but with photoshop I copied her right leg and rotated it down and it barely touches the tops of the fingers, and on top of that the left leg is noticeably shorter so how can you accurately tell how long her legs are? But I think we managed to do this stunt at the highest possible legal height. But I don't want to have to bring a ruler, and a book on perspective theory to every competition and argue with judges based on a washed out blur where I can't see the flyers legs or the bases arms.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Is this going to be a tie/inconclusive goes to runner type rule?

What are your thoughts on this?

If it's close it's up to the judgement of the judge on the panel that day.

 

[Deleted member 15]

hopefully the picture shows up this time-

I'd call it as too high.