Replacing Athletes With New Athletes...

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by Cheer Dad, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. Cheer Dad

    Cheer Dad Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    At what point should a gym not consider trying a new member (someone just moved or just decided to switch gyms) if it means moving a team member who has been there since tryouts, working hard, and doing a good job? Should loyalty matter or in the end should you always replace if someone else comes along who might benefit the team just a tiny bit more?


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  2. cheer25mom

    cheer25mom Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I think there are lots of factors at play there:
    1. What level is the team? IMO, doing it on youth 2 is a lot more objectionable than Senior 5. You know it comes with the territory on a worlds team, but booting a little kid from a team they have been on for months isn't ok IMO.

    2. I think finding a place for a athlete forced to move is different from one who just decided she wants a new gym after a couple of months. We had several quit last year over team placement and go elsewhere. After a couple of months they decided the grass wasn't greener and came back to us, certain that the "if you leave once practices start you have to sit out a year" rule wouldn't apply to them and they would be flying on their choice team to get them to stay. That didn't happen, and they went back to the other gym. They actually booted the kids that had stepped into those spots to give the gym hoppers their spots back!


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  3. TheVipersMom

    TheVipersMom Biggest (stalker) Fan '14

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    I don't have a problem with it regardless of age or level. I don't care if it's October/ jan/ if Mary is busting her tuck often on j3 and you have a kid you can replace her with. A new kid that can do the skill 100 percent of the time then the kid had ample opportunity to get it right. I'm sure feelings would be hurt but I wouldn't want my kid to bring the team down. So replace them on that team and place them on a team they can be successful even though it would likely be a lower level.


    My problem comes from threats, don't tell the girls on the team over and over they will be replaced and never replace them. If you are going to say it then do it!


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  4. SparkleSpankies

    SparkleSpankies I think I can mix Cheer Music

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    I may be having this situation w/ my high school team. A parent called as they are moving to our area and from what I have seen, her skillset is stronger then a few girls on my current varsity and also I am having a little stunt group weakness in one of my groups and the girl could base or back and may be able to solidify a group, so I may be doing this. I just always tell the girls if someone moves here, and fills a void, I will adjust to solidify the squad.
     
  5. cheerKT

    cheerKT Best Overall Poster Fantasy Football Winner

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    I think it's important the expectations are clearly defined at the beginning of each season. Replacing an athlete without warning is not fair, in my mind. I think it should be set out from the beginning of the season and each athlete knows there is a chance this could occur.

    Example, on the Smoed miniseries it's mentioned nearly every episode. Both athletes are parents alike are aware their spots are never safe. I'm not saying it necessarily needs to be harped on as often as it is there, but it should definitely be mentioned and agreed upon at the beginning of the season by everyone involved.
     
  6. kristenthegreat

    kristenthegreat Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    The one thing that always concerns me with this is: you never know the attitude of said athlete coming in until you've seen them work a bit on the floor.

    Sally Flyer coming in from Boonduckie Wherever might be all sunshine and roses and double fulls when she first walks in, but end up being a holy terror in a week or two. Whereas Suzie Jones you kicked off might not be erryday doublin but at least she's got a good work ethic and doesn't bring the team down. I don't know if there would be a way to have them come in for a week or so to see how they fit/have them at an open tumble, and I guess sometimes you need to take a chance, but I'm sure it could very well happen. Then what?
     
  7. FlexyTumblerMom

    FlexyTumblerMom I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    I'd think teams that turned away potential athletes at tryouts (ex. there were 28 kids that tried out looking to make that specific team, and only 20 made it) would be able to get away with this more easily, because they have already shown their committment to only taking the best athletes for the team. A team that has more of a "we will take anyone" attitude, may come off as a little cruel to the parents.

    It also depends a lot about how extreme the difference in skill is and how significant the position is - if we're talking about a kid that has a slightly higher back tuck than the other, that's a little less of a big deal than an amazing base who can hold up a ton more weight and really make a difference in multiple stunts staying up replacing someone who is dropping their stunts every time. Same deal w/ an amazing flyer coming in and replacing someone who can't stay tight, has poor flexibility and is always falling.
     
  8. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    Whomever said "replacement has to come with a warning" is spot on.

    I need to do what is best to build a TEAM. Not keep Becky Bailer or Terri Tumble Bust in the air or on the floor because I personally LOVE her and know she'd be crushed if I relocated her to a new spot for someone else.

    First of all, my kids know it could happen. I don't emotionally terrorize them by telling them every practice "I CAN REPLACE YOU." They know it and it doesn't need to be repeated.

    However, I can't just walk into practice and tell Becky Bailer I'm moving her for someone else. That's not fair.

    If Becky is not progressing as well as I thought she would at tryouts on a stunt, I will let her know that she needs to work on XYZ. We might even go back to basics one week with her group to work up to whatever the problem stunt is. But as we all know, that can't go on forever. So two weeks before the planned change, I'd let Becky know that we're looking at pulling her and potentially bringing in another flyer, all while having said other kid start at least conditioning with us to acclimate her to the kids, myself, etc.

    If things don't improve with Becky, the move happens. She moves to a new spot, is possibly a nugget, or if she is not in a place to benefit the team in any other capacity, another appropriate team.

    Sidenote: It's also important for the parent to be in on the planned changes because anytime a child appears to have been abruptly replaced, it causes a problem.

    Other side note about replacement, it really depends on a couple of questions. I try to ask myself/other coaches the following questions:

    1. Is the current kid improving in such a way that she'll be comparable to her replacement sooner rather than later?

    2. Is there a part of the routine or a skill that is so inconsistent that I can't risk it while the replacement has it down pat? Ex: If Becky is still busting her running tuck 3 months after tryouts and Replacement has it, odds favor the Replacement.

    3. What does the team need? What need does the Replacement have that fits that? Ex: Am I struggling to find a pass clean enough to be last pass and the Replacement girl has all Level 3 tumbling solid and a killer pass that would fill it? Is my current Last Pass 80% consistent whereas the Replacement is 100%?

    4. What is Replacement's work ethic? Is she here on time every time? Does she cooperate better than Current Athlete? Sometimes, the Replacement may have potential simply just based on the fact that she whines less than the girl she is replacing and is on time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
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  9. WinstonsGirl

    WinstonsGirl I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    I have issue with this, as I have seen solid team members kicked off their team to make way for tumblers 2 weeks before Worlds. These athletes were there all season, helped get the bid and there was no warning that their spots weren't guaranteed. I found that very unfair to those people who had worked hard all year and booked flights and such to Florida.

    If you have a team that has stated from the beginning that anyone can be replaced, I'm more ok with it. But I also feel that someone has to not be pulling their weight to get pulled. Not showing up, injured, not pulling the skills they can easily do, etc. If it's just for the sake of Susie 1 has a full and Susie 2 doesn't, I'm still not happy with it.

    I see it as go with who showed up at tryouts, not whoever feels they can walk into the gym whenever they feel like it cos they have higher skills. And I know that's not always the case, but I find there are a lot of kids who feel that certain skills give them the right to do what they want when they want, and more gyms are putting up with it too.

    ETA - onecoolcoachnowmom put this much better than I did, in regards to how replacements could be made.
     
  10. cheernerd5678

    cheernerd5678 Slow your roll, Sparkle. Bracket Winner

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    If Susie 2 doesn't have a full, isn't that not pulling her weight? Obviously it sucks to get pulled from a team if someone better comes along... But if you are a weak link on the team, I feel like you should be aware of that and it shouldn't be a complete shock to you. It will still hurt... But it's not like it's not a justified change.


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  11. Keep_Believing

    Keep_Believing Moderator

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    I agree with you if someone was busting , falling on their tumbling pass they should be replaced. The way this was written "doing a good job" to me would mean hitting their tumbling pass. I think of a new girl comes in with a better specialty pass , amazing jumps, or a fierce dancer. Is a girl bumped down so she can be placed on that team? I have mixed feelings about it. What if the new girl moved in right before NCA?
     
  12. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    I wanted to add that I am not a "replace kids 2 weeks before a comp just because" person.

    If you're being replaced it's for a reason, not necessarily because someone better waltzes in. It's because your skills are not where they were previously and this new person can remedy that.

    I've replaced a handful of kids in my career and I generally will stick to my roster unless:

    1. Suzy had skills at tryouts but is slipping/struggling now. Like, you were tucking all day during tryouts and now you're 50/50 on whether you're landing tumbling. However, the New Girl has all skills for level solidly. Your spot just became unsafe.

    2. You are late/absent/have an excuse every other practice. The Replacement looks better than you at times on the strength of being able to attend consistently.

    3. You are the #1 Whiner and New Girl is not. She has worked out with us and practiced with us sans whining for at least a few weeks and I have heard nothing through the grapevine of other kids that she whines. (because often, kids see stuff I don't because everyone will try to be Miss Perfect whenever I'm in the room.)

    4. A stunt or other critical piece of the routine is not hitting, I've given corrections, gone back to drills, etc. and it's clear that it's you. I've taken into account that all other groups in the routine are hitting so it's not a difficulty issue. The Replacement has tried it and hit consistently. Your spot is now unsafe.

    I will add that when I say "spot" it usually means "whatever thing you're doing in the routine" like your flyer position. My teams are not typically max so I generally don't totally remove kids from teams. But I will switch out positions, passes, or make them nuggets if it is determined that a new athlete would suit the team better in that position.
     
  13. Cheer Dad

    Cheer Dad Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Tagging @cupieqt @tumbleyoda And @King as I am curious on their thoughts.

    Eta @imrichhowaboutyou

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  14. cheerKT

    cheerKT Best Overall Poster Fantasy Football Winner

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    I'm sure it's different for everyone. To me, I think "not pulling your weight" would be significantly regressing from where you were when you made the team. If you were landing solid two to fulls at tryouts but now are suddenly busting it or straight up not throwing it, that would put them in the danger zone for getting replaced. After extensive discussions with the athlete, of course.
     
  15. Helen uk uni cheer

    Helen uk uni cheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    Might be relevant but I was someone who came towards the end of the season this year. I originally planned to just train with them and if someone was injured fill in but the coach at the first practice said if you want to compete with us that is fine I cant guarantee you a place in the stunts but can fit you in the jumps and the dance as they were redoing their dance.

    In the end I didnt need to replace anyone. They added a me to front a main stunt as it wasnt working and then it started to be more consistant. There were back of tumble stunts I got put in as they changed them when I was there. The only spot I replaced was the pyramid and that was so a tumbler could no another pass.

    Sometimes if a team isnt maxed out in people adding someone and switching spots is alot less stressful than taking someone off the team especially where I live as there is no lower team at senior level