All-Star Replacing Athletes With New Athletes...

[Pebbles49]

Wait a minute! I must be missing something in this Kool-Aid, you mean to tell us that a team mom, not even a contractual paid employee, coach was given the responsibility of delivering devastating news to an athlete and/or athlete's parent? What's Up, even the coaches are too busy, coaching 3 or 4 other teams too, hmm...

PS: Imo, being told devastating news like this secondhand is no different to showing up to a Parent-Teacher conference and the teacher's volunteer class helper/Mom, tells you that your child failed the class and will be retained...Crazy, yes...but no different!

 

[SL&AM]

I'll say this and then I'm bowing out. I've made my point, I think.

As we look for potential new gyms, my concern as a mother is not how many titles they've won or how great things look on social media. I want all the information, both good and bad, so that I can make an informed decision. I want to know what the worst of it is so I can decide if that's something I choose to participate in or not.

When I was considering this program for my daughter, I heard things. I also researched here, thoroughly. I liked what the coach had to say and I disregarded the rumors I had heard. That was my choice, and again, that's on me.

My point is, there are lots of great things about this gym. Many families are happy with the product. I wouldn't try to take that away from them because I am an honest person. But for that mom out there who is thinking of bringing her child here (or anywhere), and doing her research just like I once did, read and be fully informed. Maybe what happened to my kid isn't a big deal to some. Maybe some will write it off as just another disgruntled parent. Maybe the pros of this gym will outweigh the cons. That's perfectly okay and I wish them nothing but the best. But do your research. Find out what the worst is and decide if you're good with that. Because our kids take this very seriously and a bad decision on your part can really break your kid.

I commend you for having the strength to not only share your daughter's story, but also in continuing to take responsibility and not putting it all on the gym. I hope that whatever your daughter decides to do makes her happy and that you are able to find a program that aligns with her needs and your values.

 

[Lablover]

I am not one that believes a spot is untouchable and that you shouldn't/can't be replaced. I do, however, believe there is a right way to go about doing that. Between day 1 and day 2 of a competition and without talking to the cheerleader/parent is not the right way to go about it. Not via a team parent text - even though your gym seems to have a rather different view of what a team parent should be doing. These are kids - not professional athletes. They aren't even college aged athletes. This one is barely a teenager!! And for that matter, they are also paying customers of the gym, but I realize that gets lost in the having a coveted spot on a worlds team frenzy. Coaches need to have a straight forward conversation about what needs to improve, when it needs to improve by and what are the consequences for not meeting those expectations with the cheerleader and/or parent and make sure everyone is on the same page.

And as for any other sport, I would expect the coach of my son's baseball team to explain to my son why he was being benched just like I would expect an all star cheer coach to explain to a cheerleader why they are being removed. Yes, it's expected that kids are benched, moved to the starting lineup all the time, but the coaches COMMUNICATE. Hell, I would expect my BOSS in my adult life to explain to me why I was being removed from a project, not just have me show up at work and find my replacement doing my job.

I can only comment with my family's experience with other sports-- Classic (travel- paid coaches) soccer and travel baseball (paid coaches- not "daddy ball"). It's a rare coach that will take time to explain to a child why they are pulled especially during the game. After the fact, maybe if asked directly. But in the heat of the moment- no. My son's been pulled from pitching with no explanation- although I hardly think one is needed. We are friends with tons of travel baseball families and I don't know one program that explains line up changes to kids either.
Again, just my experience that communication between athletes and coaches in most children's sports is woefully inadequate. I'm sure that's a product of many coaches being young and in their first professional job as well as the more you say the more it opens you up to get yourself in trouble- with both your bosses and parents.

 

[cheerguy1]

I have knowledge of this situation and was with said gym for several seasons. The issues with this gym run deep. It is true that everyone has a different experience. I will tell you however that the situation that was described is not at all uncommon. Let's address the crossover issue. This gym makes you crossover, and they do it for several reasons. They wouldn't have the amount of teams they have without all the crossovers. The crossovers also generate a significant amount of income for the gym in the form of a $250 per athlete crossover fee. Multiply by a 1000 athletes across all locations and the amount is staggering. In regards to the way the kids are treated.... well they have great coaches that do care but ultimately on those level 5 teams one person is in control and you hope your kid is never the target. Once they become the target it's relentless and degrading and I know this first hand. My athlete left not because she wasn't on high caliber teams that were winning it's because of the lying and mistreatment that took place. I'll say again that not everyone will experience it and athletes will go through the program for many years and have a great experience. However, once you peek behind the curtain it's tough to look away. Replacing kids in warm ups or berating them before they go on the floor or after they come off is a common practice.

 

[Lablover]

I have knowledge of this situation and was with said gym for several seasons. The issues with this gym run deep. It is true that everyone has a different experience. I will tell you however that the situation that was described is not at all uncommon. Let's address the crossover issue. This gym makes you crossover, and they do it for several reasons. They wouldn't have the amount of teams they have without all the crossovers. The crossovers also generate a significant amount of income for the gym in the form of a $250 per athlete crossover fee. Multiply by a 1000 athletes across all locations and the amount is staggering. In regards to the way the kids are treated.... well they have great coaches that do care but ultimately on those level 5 teams one person is in control and you hope your kid is never the target. Once they become the target it's relentless and degrading and I know this first hand. My athlete left not because she wasn't on high caliber teams that were winning it's because of the lying and mistreatment that took place. I'll say again that not everyone will experience it and athletes will go through the program for many years and have a great experience. However, once you peek behind the curtain it's tough to look away. Replacing kids in warm ups or berating them before they go on the floor or after they come off is a common practice.

Don't the crossover fees go to cover the cross over fees required by each EP? I know the competitions we attend require cross overs to pay an additional amount (typically slightly reduced amount from registration fee for one athlete on one team). $250 seems like it's hardly outrageous to cover competition fees on a second or third team for the whole season? Or am I missing something-- is the $250'in addition to the crossover fees required by each EP?

 

[SL&AM]

I have knowledge of this situation and was with said gym for several seasons. The issues with this gym run deep. It is true that everyone has a different experience. I will tell you however that the situation that was described is not at all uncommon. Let's address the crossover issue. This gym makes you crossover, and they do it for several reasons. They wouldn't have the amount of teams they have without all the crossovers. The crossovers also generate a significant amount of income for the gym in the form of a $250 per athlete crossover fee. Multiply by a 1000 athletes across all locations and the amount is staggering. In regards to the way the kids are treated.... well they have great coaches that do care but ultimately on those level 5 teams one person is in control and you hope your kid is never the target. Once they become the target it's relentless and degrading and I know this first hand. My athlete left not because she wasn't on high caliber teams that were winning it's because of the lying and mistreatment that took place. I'll say again that not everyone will experience it and athletes will go through the program for many years and have a great experience. However, once you peek behind the curtain it's tough to look away. Replacing kids in warm ups or berating them before they go on the floor or after they come off is a common practice.

That is disappointing. It does seem to be a common theme in all-star that once you look behind the curtain (or, when no curtain is there as was the case with me pulling my kids) that the ugly truth reveals it's ugly self. I'm sorry for your child's experience, too.

 

[cheerguy1]

Don't the crossover fees go to cover the cross over fees required by each EP? I know the competitions we attend require cross overs to pay an additional amount (typically slightly reduced amount from registration fee for one athlete on one team). $250 seems like it's hardly outrageous to cover competition fees on a second or third team for the whole season? Or am I missing something-- is the $250'in addition to the crossover fees required by each EP?

Larger programs are able to negotiate down crossover fees and I would typically agree with you. However, this crossover fee is collected usually in the middle of march which is basically the end of the comp season. If this was a fee collected to pay the EP's I don't know of any program that would pay the crossover fee in advance for all its athletes for the whole season hoping to get it back after the fact.

 

[Pebbles49]

When my daughter was doing AS Cheer, I remembered, she was asked to crossover her 1st year and I was not asked to pay anything extra, just drop her off for the practices and competitions! I was actually shocked to find out people were paying extra to crossover...I thought crossovers were doing the teams/gyms a favorite and this extra money was supplemented by the athlete being replaced in the routines...

 

[cheer25mom]

I can only comment with my family's experience with other sports-- Classic (travel- paid coaches) soccer and travel baseball (paid coaches- not "daddy ball"). It's a rare coach that will take time to explain to a child why they are pulled especially during the game. After the fact, maybe if asked directly. But in the heat of the moment- no. My son's been pulled from pitching with no explanation- although I hardly think one is needed. We are friends with tons of travel baseball families and I don't know one program that explains line up changes to kids either.
Again, just my experience that communication between athletes and coaches in most children's sports is woefully inadequate. I'm sure that's a product of many coaches being young and in their first professional job as well as the more you say the more it opens you up to get yourself in trouble- with both your bosses and parents.

But, if he was not starting, he would know that before the game started right? You don't just walk up and see someone else in your spot, and assume on your own that you aren't starting today. I don't have a problem with a kid being replaced, but I do have a big problem with how this was handled.


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[cheer25mom]

When my daughter was doing AS Cheer, I remembered, she was asked to crossover her 1st year and I was not asked to pay anything extra, just drop her off for the practices and competitions! I was actually shocked to find out people were paying extra to crossover...I thought crossovers were doing the teams/gyms a favorite and this extra money was supplemented by the athlete being replaced in the routines...

Not at our gym. Unless you are replacing someone who got hurt or quit mid season you are charged all the additional comp fees and coaches fees.


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[Lablover]

But, if he was not starting, he would know that before the game started right? You don't just walk up and see someone else in your spot, and assume on your own that you aren't starting today. I don't have a problem with a kid being replaced, but I do have a big problem with how this was handled.


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No they didn't know who was pitching prior to the tournament. They might know the general idea once they got there for the weekend but with 12-14 year old boys everything is up in the air. You run into pitch count issues, just having an off day, having to play more games than initially thought, etc.
Eta: I've been to tournaments and my son was told he was starting the next game and that didn't happen. It's just one of those fluid things.
My post isn't to defend what happened but more to highlight that communication and dialogue in children's athletics (not just as cheer) appears to be lacking.

 

[cheer25mom]

No they didn't know who was pitching prior to the tournament. They might know the general idea once they got there for the weekend but with 12-14 year old boys everything is up in the air. You run into pitch count issues, just having an off day, having to play more games than initially thought, etc.
Eta: I've been to tournaments and my son was told he was starting the next game and that didn't happen. It's just one of those fluid things.

So you show up on a field at game time with no idea who your starters are? None of the kids know who is playing? I have never heard of this in kids sports. I have heard of last minute changes to the line up being made, but the kid know it before the game starts.


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[Lablover]

So you show up on a field at game time with no idea who your starters are? None of the kids know who is playing? I have never heard of this in kids sports. I have heard of last minute changes to the line up being made, but the kid know it before the game starts.


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I can only tell you our experience with travel baseball- not high school. There were 5-6 boys (a team of 11) or so who pitched and it could be anyone of them starting and we weren't told prior to the tournament who was in the line up to start. All the boys played other positions besides pitcher. You arrived an hour before game time and found out line up and warmed up then. And the batting line up while pretty set would change on occasion with no heads up.

 

[Keep_Believing]

@Lablover from talking to friends who have kids who play, that is also common in our area.

 

[Lablover]

@Lablover from talking to friends who have kids who play, that is also common in our area.

That makes me feel better. I was starting to think our local travel teams were doing something "wrong".