All-Star Replacing Athletes With New Athletes...

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Doing some math:

4 teams.

At a minimum, that is probably 8-10 hours per week of practice.

Throw in a tumbling class and a private per week and it's 12-15.

4 separate uniforms (this gym does a different uni per team, yes? So it's not like you're just switching out a top.)

If you're throwing a min of one standing and one running pass per routine and maybe one extra that's 8-10 tumbling passes.

3 teams? Maybe (if on one of them you're not really doing all skills, likw like a J3 kid who crosses to J2 and J5 but only tumbles on J5.)

4? Nah.

You may as well pull up a cot at the gym because you are basically going to be living there.

 

[justpeachy]

@oncecoolcoachnowmom It was a lot. Two of the teams she did only tumbling, but she tumbled a lot. Her body started to hurt.

One team was just supposed to be for a few weeks. It began to drag on and we started to complain. Finally I did speak up firmly and the team was dropped.

For the most part, there is a gym wide uniform with interchangeable bras and different bows per team. That is still stressful when running from team to team and having to change in between.

 

[Boughetto]

@justpeachy I'm sorry to read about the situation with your daughter. But why would this big name gym need her to cross over for 4 different level 5 teams? Doesn't this gym have several level 5 teams or are all the teams comprised of the same athletes? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

 

[driverto6]

Thank you, that means a lot from you.

There was this feeling that if she tried just a little harder, got a little more skill, she would become one of the untouchable kids.



Unfortunately...I don't think this exists anywhere...anyone and everyone is replaceable!

Honestly I really do not understand a gym putting a kid with a tumbling block on 3-4 different teams. Why?? If she is not consistently throwing skills for the team she is on, then she should be on a team where she has the appropriate level skills. But that is a conversation that should have been had between her, you, and the gym long before she was actually supposed to compete! It's inexcusable.


I am very sorry for your daughter, and I am very glad she has other options and still loves cheer!

 

[JumpChannel]

She thankfully is still interested in the sport, so we are taking this time to get her back to healthy.

@justpeachy very sorry that happened. When alternates are needed, we would all hope for dignity and encouragement.
Best luck to your daughter.

 

[justpeachy]

or are all the teams comprised of the same athletes?

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

@Fiercecheermom you're absolutely right. I should have put my foot down over the number of teams. We did grumble about it some, but clearly I should have flat out said no. I knew that dropping teams would mean dropping the one that was challenging her rather than one that was not. I should have spoken up anyways.

I agree with you about being "block proof" also. All I can really ask is that she becomes as mentally strong and resilient as possible.

Exactly! I hope everything works out

 

[Sparkle Mom]

@Cheer Dad Please forgive me if my story hijacks, but I feel a strong need to share it and this feels like the place.

My daughter is 13 (cheer 12). She was on a jr coed 5 team with a large, competitive gym that she had cheered at for 5 years prior. About a year ago, her team (or some combination of her teams, I can't remember) had an 8 hour Summit boot camp. Towards the end of this boot camp, she became physically exhausted and could no longer flip her body over. I saw the panic spread over her face... this was the beginning of a mental tumbling block.

Her coach handled it by screaming in her face and berating her- during practices, during Worlds/ Summit sendoff in front of a packed gym, and during practices and warmups at Summit. It was horrible and I should have put a stop to it then. My daughter performed at Summit, with easier level 5 passes and basing. After Summit, we made a gym change for the new season. My daughter and I both naively believed that the new, more positive environment would be a quick fix for the block. We were wrong. Though she loved the new gym, she missed the intensity (read abusive relationship) that she had gotten accustomed to at her old program. I was assured that my daughter would be coached less harshly, and we returned a short time later.

Things were going well and after a while my daughter was asked to help out on another team. This was a Worlds team and she was thrilled to be a part of it. One practice, during choreography, another girl showed up to learn the same parts that my daughter had been doing. By this time, my daughter was on 4 teams: jr coed 5, sr coed rest 5, med sr 5, and jr rest 5. Because of the 4 team conflict rules that are in place at competitions, my daughter would need a fill in at times. Unfortunately, nobody told her what was going on, so she thought she was being replaced. This was a common occurrence in this program, so she had no reason to think otherwise. I explained to her many times that she wasn't being replaced, but teenage girl brain would not hear it. Que self doubt and return of the tumbling block. This was January. Though the block began a few weeks before a larger competition, nothing happened other than some yelling and empty threats. She was actually called stubborn and lazy. Again, I should have put a stop to things right here. The competition happened to be in the same city as one of the gym's locations, so there was a Friday night practice before the competition. When my daughter didn't flip over as expected, she was told by her coach, "well you should be fine now since you are no longer on (the World's) team". And with that, she continued to practice with the j5. Since there was no real conversation or communication, she wasn't sure if this was another empty threat or if she had been removed from the Worlds team she was supposed to compete with the next day. I texted the team mom for clarification and learned that my daughter wouldn't be competing with that team any longer. She went on to compete with her remaining teams.

After this competition, the gym began to get serious about upcoming national level competitions (Cheersport, NCA, UCA, etc). My daughter continued to tumble inconsistently. She was often able to complete passes that began with a forward tumbling skill, but could not flip herself over backwards. We began hypnosis, psychotherapy, private lessons with a low pressure coach, and consulted a tumbling block expert who would also work with her by Skype. There is no instant cure for mental blocks, however I feel like we did everything possible. My daughter is a very hard worker and has a strong work ethic, by all accounts. She is humble (perhaps to a fault) and wanted her coaches approval more than anything. Just to be clear, I am not a psycho pushy cheer mom. My kid is a perfectionist and my role is normally to remind her that she is young and needs to CTFD. The more she wanted to tumble, the less likely it became. I will give the coach the credit of saying that she did handle the block less harshly this time. There was considerably less yelling and humiliation and we appreciated that. Still, the pressure and harm of the original block loomed and my daughter knew that eventually the patience would run out. In February, it did. Another girl in the gym was brought in to tumble beside her and threaten her. The girls would trade back and forth and some practices my daughter would not go in at all. Many times she was sent out of practice into another gym to do nothing. Later, a new girl was brought in from a different location to threaten my daughter. Anytime new kids came in the gym, us parents referred to them as "scare girls". That was their job. To scare kids into performing. It's counterproductive, in my opinion. A kid who is already frozen with fear is not going to unfreeze by adding more fear. Seems like common sense, but what do I know.

I knew what was coming and eventually I got the phone call. My daughter would not be on the floor at NCA. She was still part of the team and would still compete at Cheersport and UCA. I won't sugar coat it- I was upset. I knew what this competition meant to my daughter. She had worked 8 years with an NCA jacket as her #1 goal. I cried for her failure and the toll I knew that this would take on her spirit. I vented to my friends and to the team mom who was also my friend. I gathered myself and spoke to my daughter positively. This meant that the pressure to overcome the block was gone. The pressure to perform or cost the team those coveted jackets was gone. She could work her way back at her own pace. She could still travel with the team and would still receive a jacket if they won. I felt like that was fair, she had worked hard all year and contributed as a strong base and helped her team win two Summit bids. I said over and over that she would never want to be the kid who cost her teammates their jackets. We accepted the decision and kept pushing forward.

Then came Cheersport. Day 1 came and it was a mess. For the part that my child had a hand in, she balked her passes and her stunt came down. During the video review after the routine, my daughter's coach looked at her and said "just leave". She came out crying and told me. Soon after, the coach walked out and was speaking with another parent. When they were finished talking, I sent my daughter to the bathroom and got the attention of the coach. I asked her if she really wanted my daughter to "just leave". Her response was that if it would make me happy to leave then go for it. I told her this wasn't about me, but she had to be accountable to her words to my child. She asked me why the stunt fell. I said I am a parent, I have no idea why the stunt fell. It could have been my daughter's fault. It could have been that she had just competed other 2 teams consecutively and that her arms were spaghetti at this point. It could be that she is out of shape from sitting out of practices. It could be that the flyer just got over the flu and still wasn't feeling well. It could be that the flyer was adjusting to flying on two very different bases... hell I am a mom and all I know is the thing came down. Why are you, the coach, asking ME? The subject is then changed to the tumbling. Why didn't she tumble? Well, she has had a tumbling block for a month now, this is not new information. Coach tells me that she believed the kid would "get out there and just throw it". Well, I might be just a cheer mom but this is a no brainer. If a kid can't mentally flip her body over in practice, it's probably not going to happen at one of the most important competitions in front of hundreds of people either. The conversation became circular and incoherent and coach wandered off. We went back to our hotel. I'll just interject here that the team in question was in first place by over 4 points at this time. I'll also add here that in 8 years of cheerleading, I have never confronted a coach about an issue and especially not at a competition. I'm well aware that you just don't to that. This situation, in my opinion, warranted breaking the code.

The next day, I dropped my kid off for warmups with her first team. She would warmup and compete 3 level 5 teams within an hour and a half, just like the day before. Compete, run to the next warmup (through that godawful BC connector while changing bow and uniform top), compete, run the connector, warmup, compete again... it's exhausting just to type. Her first two teams went decent. Her tumbling had been slowly improving on those teams where she didn't feel the same pressure (different coaches). She arrived a few minutes late to her last team with the other crossovers. Gets her uniform changed and goes to start warming up and the NCA replacement girl is in her stunt. She thinks that this is because she arrived late to warmups and takes a minute to breathe. When it is time for the team to go onto the floor, she sees this kid walk up the steps and realizes that she has been replaced. Nobody told her. Nobody said one single word to this 13 year old kid to let her know that she had been replaced. At the moment that the team took the floor, I received a text from the team mom telling me that my daughter would not be on the floor. My response was to send my daughter out immediately and I walked over to the side of the stage where kids exit after performing. The routine started. My daughter's stunt group, which she was not in, fell. My daughter still had not come out. I was beginning to text again when the arena went silent and I heard panicked gasps from the moms around me. I looked up and an athlete was lying on the floor, clearly unconscious. I asked the moms around me what happened. I was told that the flyer was thrown, in a pyramid flip, feet first into the bases face and knocked her out. This was my daughter's group in the pyramid and it was her replacement who was unable to throw the flyer properly (in the kid's defense, she was clearly way too small to base this particular flyer and she had been learning a different part in the pyramid so she was totally winging it). The floor was cleared and the kids came out. I grabbed up my kid and we left Atlanta because mama bear was about to erupt. I texted the coach and let her know that we were done. The team competed again a few minutes later and apparently hit, bringing home those Cheersport jackets. Because that is what TRULY matters.

I have LOTS more to say, but this post is too long already.

I can only imagine how difficult this must have been for you both. I can't imagine that the risk of physical injury and the mental anguish would be worth jackets to some people (More people than would admit to it). The idea of putting anyone on the floor that many times and performing to that level is just ridiculous. I can't even understand why competing on 3-4 teams should be option. The lack of communication is horrifying. Replacing an athlete due to a mental block is unfortunate enough but clearly they did not care about the implications of doing so. I know many people believe that an athlete should not be removed from the team but at this level is an unfortunate situation that may be necessary. To find out at warm ups is unfathomable. I'm sure that many parents will question why you let her return to the gym or why let this happen but as a parent that has seen some of these things happen you feel helpless. The child ends up wanting to stay rather than quit even though I'm sure both of you knew how painful it was to stay. It is always interesting how others at a gym will turn a blind eye to it because it isn't their child. I saw a child shoved out (physically shoved) of a gym (note: not my gym) last year and told them they can come back in when they throw their tumble pass. A room full of parents looked at this and just went back to what they were doing. The 9-10 year old's mom said to her well what do you expect when you aren't throwing your pass. I don't know why the coaches think this will get the results they hope. Thank you for sharing so perhaps other parents can recognize when they need to intervene so things do not get to this point. I hope your daughter can heal from this experience and realizes that nothing she did/didn't do justifies this type of treatment from coaches.

 

[catlady]

I understand gyms want to be competitive but, where is the line? Four teams at a large or small gym, why? "Scare girls", insane. Removed seconds before going on the floor without notice, I have no words. @justpeachy There are competitive gyms out there that have removed kids from teams before but, the parents are sat down, in private, offered another team (albeit when they're on 1 not 4) and the coach is honest and lets the parent know that both the team and their child are in his/her best interest. Removing an athlete from a high pressure team and putting them on a team with less pressure can be beneficial to a blocking athlete in the long run but, there's an appropriate way to handle that situation.

What these kids do is hard, and I think we and the kids often minimize their need for physical and mental rest and recharge. I hope you find a gym that fits her needs soon.

 

[justpeachy]

There are competitive gyms out there that have removed kids from teams before but, the parents are sat down, in private, offered another team (albeit when they're on 1 not 4) and the coach is honest and lets the parent know that both the team and their child are in his/her best interest.

This would have been fair. Of course I did not want my kid's issue to harm her team. It simply should have been handled appropriately.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I cannot understand replacing an athlete in warm up or any time without having a discussion about why. I know I've done it mid practice with a brief explanation and a longer one after practice to explain why and what the athlete has to do to get back to a spot.

@justpeachy My heart hurts for your daughter. What a strong, resilient girl you're raising that these experiences haven't destroyed her love of cheerleading. Don't beat yourself up about ignoring the signs. Everyone has ignored that voice that says something isn't right and pushed forward. I hope that you and your CP are able to find a home that will work for her and allow her to keep growing.

 

[cachoi]

Thank you, that means a lot from you.

I accept all the responsibility for what happened. I heard the rumors and took her there anyways. I saw it with my own eyes, yet we continued. There was this feeling that if she tried just a little harder, got a little more skill, she would become one of the untouchable kids.

It's very sick and I should not have allowed it.

I commend you for teaching her how to work hard through a tough time and to honor the commitment y'all made at the beginning of the season before enough became enough. There are too many parents wanting to walk away every time Suzy gets a correction they don't like but your situation was too much.

 

[icequeen]

@justpeachy I'm sorry to read about the situation with your daughter. But why would this big name gym need her to cross over for 4 different level 5 teams? Doesn't this gym have several level 5 teams or are all the teams comprised of the same athletes? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

There is a big name gym not sure where her daughter cheered that has kids on multiple teams. If you been around long enough you kind of figure out who it is.

 

[cheer25mom]

This is just wrong, on so many levels. I am pretty sure i know what program we are talking about and if so it isn't the first time I have hear about verbal abuse, threats ,and these kinds of shenanigans from them, from the top down. I am so sorry any child had to go through this, and there really are no words for it. sadly, unless and until more people stop taking it and walk, it won't change.

 

[justpeachy]

This is just wrong, on so many levels. I am pretty sure i know what program we are talking about and if so it isn't the first time I have hear about verbal abuse, threats ,and these kinds of shenanigans from them, from the top down. I am so sorry any child had to go through this, and there really are no words for it. sadly, unless and until more people stop taking it and walk, it won't change.

Unfortunately, my kiddo is far from the first and certainly won't be the last to fall victim to this place. There's usually at least a shred of truth to every rumor you hear.