High School Summer Camps

[AScheer]

Anyone else see the new information about music for home pom routines at UCA camps this summer? They aren't allowing cheer mixes so that we/they are protected from copyright infringement. Only music allowed is a single unedited song purchased from iTunes or similar, old UCA cover mixes, or a cheer mix made only from covers of songs.

I found it interesting. I'm not sure if they'll enforce it or if they are just putting it out there so they can't be held responsible if something happens. Can't help but wonder if this is just a preview of rules that we will see at competitions.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

I am also concerned about this. I know that people are liking the idea of having covers, but I don't. I am sure there are other ways to enforce the "copyright laws" and "Royalties" other than forcing us to use cover music. Coming from dance studio experience, I can't imagine why a Cheer gym or other related business would not have a music license to begin with in order to appropriately pay royalties. When you're buying music from itunes you're buying them for personal use. If anything is going beyond personal use you should be having a music license anyway.

 

[Sully Gondron]

Anyone else see the new information about music for home pom routines at UCA camps this summer? They aren't allowing cheer mixes so that we/they are protected from copyright infringement. Only music allowed is a single unedited song purchased from iTunes or similar, old UCA cover mixes, or a cheer mix made only from covers of songs.

I found it interesting. I'm not sure if they'll enforce it or if they are just putting it out there so they can't be held responsible if something happens. Can't help but wonder if this is just a preview of rules that we will see at competitions.

Adding to what dance_extreme_94 said.... When I DJ in public the venue, club, or company pays the music license to ASCAP, BMI and other artists protection agencies alike. I don't understand why these huge multi-million dollar establishments who's business is based around MUSIC are not paying for these cheer and dance schools to use whatever music they want.

Don't get me wrong...I do believe the artists should get paid. I am a recording artist/producer myself and an ASCAP member. So this brings up another question to think about... Why are cover songs allowed? Shouldn't the writer and producer get royalties if the song is covered? If this is the establishment's attempt to avoid royalty payments... everyone would just have to make their own music or just not use music period.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

Adding to what dance_extreme_94 said.... When I DJ in public the venue, club, or company pays the music license to ASCAP, BMI and other artists protection agencies alike. I don't understand why these huge multi-million dollar establishments who's business is based around MUSIC are not paying for these cheer and dance schools to use whatever music they want.

Don't get me wrong...I do believe the artists should get paid. I am a recording artist/producer myself and an ASCAP member. So this brings up another question to think about... Why are cover songs allowed? Shouldn't the writer and producer get royalties if the song is covered? If this is the establishment's attempt to avoid royalty payments... everyone would just have to make their own music or just not use music period.

Exactly. The cover song is still the same song just a different version. Kind of like a remix. So why doesn' t the artist have to be paid for a cover song? the idea is still coming off their music and work.

 

[AScheer]

Adding to what dance_extreme_94 said.... When I DJ in public the venue, club, or company pays the music license to ASCAP, BMI and other artists protection agencies alike. I don't understand why these huge multi-million dollar establishments who's business is based around MUSIC are not paying for these cheer and dance schools to use whatever music they want.

I didn't know that, very interesting. How much do the licenses cost a venue? Do you have to have a list of pre-approved songs, or does the license cover every song? I don't know much about how that all works.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I'll add my two cents here...

Some of this has to be borne out of the evolution of cheer music. When I was competing 20 years ago, we had maybe four songs in our whole routine. Cheer music these days has gone plain stupid. I think we had six or seven songs in our first music alone. There's no way these competition companies could license every single song in every routine with any efficiency. I let our music guy have a little free will last year and it took me 4 hours to figure out what song from which one line came. Some of these kids listen to this jumbled garbage while they're doing homework. I can't stand to listen to it while my kids are competing.

 

[Official OWECheer]

What about custom songs? Or are those too expensive and time-consuming?

 

[Sully Gondron]

What about custom songs? Or are those too expensive and time-consuming?

I think its just to find someone who has the capabilities to reproduce these "hit" songs, but its pretty expensive if we would have to do it. I'd have to pay someone to come record at my studio and have to have them sign a waiver to let us use it, and submit it with the music to show Varsity that we are in compliance. This route still doesn't pay the artists! lol So what's the real agenda Varsity has here?

 

[Sully Gondron]

I didn't know that, very interesting. How much do the licenses cost a venue? Do you have to have a list of pre-approved songs, or does the license cover every song? I don't know much about how that all works.

Well first you have to purchase at least 3 different licenses. 1 for ASCAP, 1 for SESAC and the other for BMI...with those 3 licenses you knock out almost 100% of popular songs who use ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC as publishing collectors.

ASCAP (as well as BMI and SESAC) is an American not-for-profitperformance-rights organization(PRO) that protects its members' musical copyrights by monitoring public performances of their music, whether via a broadcast or live performance, and compensating them accordingly.
Not sure on license costs.

Conspiracy theorists MUST READ BELOW!!!!

So as I mentioned I am a recording artist/ producer. When you have a finished song, you are suppose to "Register for an Internatinal Standard Recording Code (ISRC) for your songs. The ISRC is a unique international identifier for the songs (tracks) on your album and functions as a digital “fingerprint” for each track. Unlike a Universal Product Code (UPC), the ISRC is tied to the track and not the carrier of the track (CD, cassette, etc)." SOURCE - 10 Things to Do Before You Release Your Album

When we create a cheer mix, there are songs on top of songs (mash ups)...sound FX...voice overs... basically destroying the DNA of all the songs' ISRC. When you do that, it makes it hard for all these 3 companies to track how their artists' music is being used to collect royalties for their usage. I can see how this could be a problem.... but this is what I do not get.....

If you cover a song...you still HAVE to pay royalties and obtain a license. Which is the reason why you can't use the original songs according to Varisty!!!!!!!! So why is Varsity allowing covers?
Here's my answer: BECAUSE IT IS HARD AS HELL TO GET SOMEONE TO COVER A SONG AND RELEASE THEIR WORK FOR CHEAP....this FORCES you to use a VARSITY MIX (cheaper route)!!!!!! Which means more money for VARSITY, and they cut costs by not having to pay your royalties!!!!!!!! This means more money on the bottom line for Varsity!!! Smart business move on their part, and it takes all this money spent on music and puts it back in their pockets! BUT it screws the smaller cheer schools who want to be unique and can't because they can't afford $1000+ for a custom cheer mix that doesn't sound like every other cheer team's mix.

Link below is to the NEW Rules:

Frequently Asked Questions for Camps

 

[AScheer]

I'll add my two cents here...

Some of this has to be borne out of the evolution of cheer music. When I was competing 20 years ago, we had maybe four songs in our whole routine. Cheer music these days has gone plain stupid. I think we had six or seven songs in our first music alone. There's no way these competition companies could license every single song in every routine with any efficiency. I let our music guy have a little free will last year and it took me 4 hours to figure out what song from which one line came. Some of these kids listen to this jumbled garbage while they're doing homework. I can't stand to listen to it while my kids are competing.

All of the music companies I've worked with keep school teams mixes to roughly 5 songs total for both halves. I can't imagine many more fitting in that short allotment of time!

What about custom songs? Or are those too expensive and time-consuming?

We have had custom music in the last 3 seasons mixes. I wouldn't consider our mixes too expensive for the industry (especially if you look at allstar prices.) I also don't know what other teams consider normal pricing for mixes, so maybe we are paying a lot?

 

[epitomeofbeans]

I'm really concerned about this as well... Are they going to prohibit teams from performing if their coach missed the memo? Are they going to listen to every team's track for approval? I really don't like any of the mixes from the website UCA suggested...

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

All of the music companies I've worked with keep school teams mixes to roughly 5 songs total for both halves. I can't imagine many more fitting in that short allotment of time!

We have had custom music in the last 3 seasons mixes. I wouldn't consider our mixes too expensive for the industry (especially if you look at allstar prices.) I also don't know what other teams consider normal pricing for mixes, so maybe we are paying a lot?

I talked to my music guy via Facebook today. We can get 1:30 of fully custom lyrics with his artists for $750. I don't know what everyone else's feelings are, but this is reasonable for our situation.

ETA: I really like the guy and I'd rather give more money to him, than less money to the Varsity machine

 

[LittleMissA17]

So to keep the topic moving how are you all planning to do camp this year?

I remember at camp last year my coaches told me they tried a bunch in the past,including the one we've been going to since my sophomore year, and they've said they weren't too into the camp that had the university setting and like the one we go to now the best, which is trail's end (a lot of the national finalist go to this camp) since you're in a cabin with your entire team and seeing all the talent is almost a prequel to regionals/nationals for us.

 

[AScheer]

So to keep the topic moving how are you all planning to do camp this year?

I remember at camp last year my coaches told me they tried a bunch in the past,including the one we've been going to since my sophomore year, and they've said they weren't too into the camp that had the university setting and like the one we go to now the best, which is trail's end (a lot of the national finalist go to this camp) since you're in a cabin with your entire team and seeing all the talent is almost a prequel to regionals/nationals for us.

Full team in a cabin sounds fun! We don't have anything like that close to us. I've really been considering beach camps. We've never done one, just an idea I play with every year. It would be a step down in competitiveness (I've been told they're more relaxed and don't come in the elite format.) Im just trying to justify spending that much for the fun when we really won't get anything out of it. The camp we've attended most has terrible downs. I hate them, but it's the best camp we've found out of the ones we've tried.

 

[LittleMissA17]

Full team in a cabin sounds fun! We don't have anything like that close to us. I've really been considering beach camps. We've never done one, just an idea I play with every year. It would be a step down in competitiveness (I've been told they're more relaxed and don't come in the elite format.) Im just trying to justify spending that much for the fun when we really won't get anything out of it. The camp we've attended most has terrible downs. I hate them, but it's the best camp we've found out of the ones we've tried.

Yeah it's great since you're all together and see each other at their most tired and there's not hiding things amongst team mates as would be the case if we were at a camp at a university since those have separate rooms of 4.

I would have loved to try a beach resort camp, they look so nice and having cheer class on the beach sounds like a dream. But we don't have that up here either.