Tiny Young Flyers

[queenie]

I am only stressed out when my cp is flying. I don't worry at all when she's basing. She loves flying, but I find it way more stressful!

 

[Keep_Believing]

When oldest CP went from flyer to base I was a lot less stressed at competitions.

 

[cheer25mom]

My CP has been a base from day one, and I still stress about stunts. She has taken a LOT more hits/ injuries as a base than anywhere else.


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[codysow14]

I have a feel that this is just a dig at one very well known team. [emoji23]


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[DonePaying4Cheer]

The best athlete for the job should get it, period regardless of size. Physics says, all things being equal, the smaller flyer has an easier time staying up. Life isn't always fair, but it's the reality of the situation, you need to be small to fly.



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That's not always true. The flyer who can pull up, squeeze, is flexible and hold her weight, is the lightest flyer.
I've had tiny girls who felt like 200lbs b/c they would not pull up. They flew like babies, or had a side heel stretch, or were inflexible, so would hunch over to reach their legs. Then, I had flyers who were my height/weight, who felt like feathers, because they would constantly be pulling and wouldn't hunch over in her stretches. That's how it is.
ETA: The best base, is not the biggest or tallest (I was the smallest backspot on my team and we hit more often than not). The best base is the smartest bases. Kids who are easily coachable and can make quick corrections and adjustments. Kids who can take an inexperienced flyer and help her to look her best by noticing her mistakes and adjusting for them, is the best ground crew. JMHO. What do I know, I'm retired.

 

[cheer25mom]

That's not always true. The flyer who can pull up, squeeze, is flexible and hold her weight, is the lightest flyer.
I've had tiny girls who felt like 200lbs b/c they would not pull up. They flew like babies, or had a side heel stretch, or were inflexible, so would hunch over to reach their legs. Then, I had flyers who were my height/weight, who felt like feathers, because they would constantly be pulling and wouldn't hunch over in her stretches. That's how it is.

Read what I actually said. All things being equal, meaning both flyers are skilled. Lighter flyer wins hands down if both can hold their weight. Honestly though, a flyer the same weight as her base will never "feel like a feather", and a 70 lb girl will never feel like 200. A bigger flyer may do a good job and make lifting her easier, but like a feather, nope. A smaller girl might not pull up as much, and make the job harder, but she will never feel like 200 lbs.

At a certain level, I feel like this discussion about tiny flyers not doing their job becomes irrelevant, because they simply won't be in the air if they cannot hit the stunt. Gyms are looking to win. They are going to fly the people who make that happen. A flyer who isn't trying to pull up and squeeze at all has no hope of being that person.


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[DonePaying4Cheer]

Read what I actually said. All things being equal, meaning both flyers are skilled. Lighter flyer wins hands down if both can hold their weight. Honestly though, a flyer the same weight as her base will never "feel like a feather", and a 70 lb girl will never feel like 200. A bigger flyer may do a good job and make lifting her easier, but like a feather, nope. A smaller girl might not pull up as much, and make the job harder, but she will never feel like 200 lbs.

At a certain level, I feel like this discussion about tiny flyers not doing their job becomes irrelevant, because they simply won't be in the air if they cannot hit the stunt. Gyms are looking to win. They are going to fly the people who make that happen. A flyer who isn't trying to pull up and squeeze at all has no hope of being that person.


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Of course I was exaggerating to make a point. But you're wrong. A bigger girl can feel lighter than someone smaller. I've lifted them. I'm not saying that all small flyers are bad. I'm just pointing out that all regular sized girls are not necessarily "heavy" . CEA's EE, MG, GD, JZ, and Maddie are prime examples of girls who were normal sized, who flew successfully on bases not much bigger than themselves. They did the hardest stunts for their time. WCSS still flys "regular" sized girls. Again, JMHO.

 

[cheerspirit]

The logic of all things being equal doesn't work because the topic is emotional. People will continue to say size doesn't matter. Coaches will continue to use small flyers.

 

[DonePaying4Cheer]

Experience makes a big difference too. The girls I mentioned had been flying L5 all girl for years. So, norm or small, experience helps tremendously.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

There are people on football teams specifically to be QBs.

There are people on basketball teams specifically to be the center (big guy in the middle.)

But when we start talking position in cheer and the smaller girls with L5 skills being on the team specifically to fly everyone goes crazy!

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

So @Cheer2009 - my now 20 year old cheerleader is 4'6" and about 85 pounds. Who should she base? Or backspot? Or is she just not be allowed to cheer because of your proposed rule where you deem her to small and too easy to base?

The people (and often parents) who complain the most about flyer size do not understand this.

Yes Barbara I get that your daughter is 5'4 and 130 and a pretty good flyer.

But if I have a freshman who is 4'7 and 80 (with flyer experience) I'm deciding between your kid and that freshman, you have to consider:

IF FRESHMAN FLYER DOES NOT FLY, WHAT IS SHE GOING TO DO?

WHO IS SHE GOING TO BASE? TINKERBELL? SMURFETTE?

WHO.

Miss 5'4 is going to transition to basing. Sorry but also not.

 

[cheer25mom]

Of course I was exaggerating to make a point. But you're wrong. A bigger girl can feel lighter than someone smaller. I've lifted them. I'm not saying that all small flyers are bad. I'm just pointing out that all regular sized girls are not necessarily "heavy" . CEA's EE, MG, GD, JZ, and Maddie are prime examples of girls who were normal sized, who flew successfully on bases not much bigger than themselves. They did the hardest stunts for their time. WCSS still flys "regular" sized girls. Again, JMHO.

Again, I didn't say a bigger girl couldn't be lighter than a smaller one, I said that when both flyers do their job, which in reality is most of the tine on higher level teams, the lighter flyer is easier. Your examples were extremely talented girls who are actually pretty small, many of them less than 5 ft tall.

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[cheer25mom]

The people (and often parents) who complain the most about flyer size do not understand this.

Yes Barbara I get that your daughter is 5'4 and 130 and a pretty good flyer.

But if I have a freshman who is 4'7 and 80 (with flyer experience) I'm deciding between your kid and that freshman, you have to consider:

IF FRESHMAN FLYER DOES NOT FLY, WHAT IS SHE GOING TO DO?

WHO IS SHE GOING TO BASE? TINKERBELL? SMURFETTE?

WHO.

Miss 5'4 is going to transition to basing. Sorry but also not.

Another thing to consider is who is going to benefit the team more. The lighter flyer means less wear and tear on your bases and you can likely hit harder stunts if she does her job.


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[CheerBank]

Another thing to consider is who is going to benefit the team more. The lighter flyer means less wear and tear on your bases and you can likely hit harder stunts if she does her job.


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And bases are not as tired during tumbling either.

 

[DonePaying4Cheer]

Again, I didn't say a bigger girl couldn't be lighter than a smaller one, I said that when both flyers do their job, which in reality is most of the tine on higher level teams, the lighter flyer is easier. Your examples were extremely talented girls who are actually pretty small, many of them less than 5 ft tall.

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Under 5ft? Um no. Maddie was taller than her bases. So, was JZ. The other women I mentioned were relatively muscular and none under 5ft tall. I understand your point, I was making my own that was related to your post. I've seen some crazy side heel-stretches lately in LAG. There was one team for whom this was a major issue along with flexibility. Most of their flyers were tiny. In a couple of years, will they be better? Sure. But, size and ability are not mutually exclusive. Just like bases need time to learn good stunting techniques, a young flyer needs to learn as well. I'd hope that coaches are coaching the entire team and not depending on a flyers size to make things easier. In that scenario, if all the stunts fall, will it be because the bases weren't big enough? Of course not, that wouldn't make sense. But stunts are easier because a girl is tinier?... In a perfect world all things would be equal. But, I think experience counts for more than physical attributes.