Two Level 3 Questions

Discussion in 'Is this legal?' started by CGAcheer, Oct 13, 2011.

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  1. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    At level 3,

    1.) handstand straight up to an extended heel stretch, is it legal for a stunt but illegal in a pyramid?

    essentially this to a group behind him with one of the bases grabbing the leg and maintaining contact with the flyer through the handstand all the way to the top


    2.) Twisting release moves in a pyramid.


    Prior to the most recent update, you were allowed to twist in stunts and you were allowed to release in pyramids which meant that you were allowed to twist while released provided the flyer had separate arm and arm connections with 2 bracers. But with the stunt rules now specifically saying no twisting while released and the pyramid rules say that you must follow the stunt rules, did that have the unintended consequence of eliminating twisting from pyramids?
     
  2. imrichhowboutu

    imrichhowboutu Guest

    The first one is legal if contact is maintained throughout. It is actually legal in level 2 to prep level single leg or extended 2 leg as well (provided contact is maintained)

    For the second, you are not allowed to do release moves above prep in stunts or including more than one skill however this is stated (so you would be allowed to twist if braced by 2 flyers at prep level):
    L3 Pyramid Release moves, must maintain contact with two other top persons if the release move begins at prep level or above, passes above extended arm level, includes more than one skill, or is caught in an extended position.

     
  3. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    So the part in pyramids about you may pass through an inverted position but have to start and end at prep or below doesn't apply to this?

    And "includes more than one skill" negates the 0 twists from the stunt section?
     
  4. Andre

    Andre Batman at Justice League

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    1. Rich gave a great answer. I'd add that anything that is legal for stunts is legal for pyramids.

    2. I disagree with Rich. You can no longer twist in pyramid release moves in L3, regardless of the number of bracers.
     
  5. imrichhowboutu

    imrichhowboutu Guest

    You have to follow everything from Stunts. You get to do something additional if it is specifically called out.
     
  6. imrichhowboutu

    imrichhowboutu Guest

    Would you take that to mean that you can do multiple tricks as long as they don't twist then? Like a kick kick?
     
  7. Andre

    Andre Batman at Justice League

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    No, since you started with an inversion on the ground.

    No, I say it's illegal.

    (I didn't see your reply to Rich before I gave my first reply.)
     
  8. Andre

    Andre Batman at Justice League

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    Yes.
     
  9. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    Is that an unintended consequence, that will be adjusted? That just eliminates so much stuff that's been legal for years, with this rule you can't even do a quarter twist, you can't get to flat back any way but just going straight. I'm sure there are tons of level 3 teams out there that have a little bit of twisting in their pyramids that don't realize it is now illegal because the most recent change.

    It would be a simple fix, "includes more than 1 skill, involves up to 1 twisting rotation, or is caught in an extended position"
     
  10. Andre

    Andre Batman at Justice League

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    I don't think it was unintended. If there is a clarification or exception added to allow twisting I wouldn't expect it to allow more than a 1/2 twist.
     
  11. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    I think if it were intended it wouldn't be the vague barely there carry over from the stunt rule that it is now. Kind of like when they were rewritting level 3 the first time this year they didn't realize that they were allowing full twisting release moves. I think on this rewrite they didn't realize that their wording was eliminating it from pyramids
     
  12. Andre

    Andre Batman at Justice League

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    I think the intent was to remove all twisting release moves from L3 and that wasn't made obvious for pyramids, but I'm not on the Rules Committee so I'm just guessing.

    I just emailed Les again. He normally gets back to me in about 30 minutes or never, without much in between.
     
  13. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    I sent him the same questions the day before I posted here, haven't heard back, also emailed back in august about the same skill I'm questioning in two but about the definition of side and how it changes from level 3 to 4.

    I'm basically just wanting to go from an arabesque with 2 separate bracers on the arms and one on the foot to a flat back, but that is a half twist release move. Can't just catch in a cradle either because then it is a half twist dismount from 1 foot, it was legal 2 weeks ago and two years ago and now due to what I assume was an oversight in the wording it may be illegal depending on interpretations of whether more than 1 skill includes twisting and overrides the must follow stunt rules since it is in "the you follow stunt rules unless it meets the certain conditions and you can do a bit more than you can in the stunt section" section
     
  14. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    any replies from your email?
     
  15. Andre

    Andre Batman at Justice League

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    No to the email.

    I asked everyone in my group from Worlds and the consensus is twisting in release moves in L3 is illegal for stunts and pyramids. None of us is Les, but one person in the group is on the Rules Committee.
     
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