High School Uca Nationals 2017

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Ahhh. I see. The article did not go into that specific detail. We ran into that issue at uca nationals and they would not budge either yet we saw teams doing the same skill set as us getting higher difficulty scores. Sad situation for those girls.

Yep, life sucks. Calling the newspaper and getting an article going is a bit extreme. How about this one: Teach the kids that sometimes you work hard, do the work, and still don't get the reward. That's LIFE! One of these days, they're going to be in line for a job and someone who is equal or lesser qualified is going to be given the position over them. This coach had an opportunity to show them how to handle it with class. Instead, he/she took the opportunity to demonstrate what whining looks like.

 

[AScheer]

Houston was actually quite the powerhouse in late 90s/early 00s in both MS and HS. Good to see them back.

This! I grew up watching Houston waaayyyy back in the day! I'm not sure they ever went anywhere, but they sure have been dominating the last half a decade!

 

[AScheer]

Coach Claims Scoring Mishap For Kentucky Cheer Team - LEX18.com | Continuous News and StormTracker Weather


Not sure if this is true but it's interesting...


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My opinions on this...

1. I'm glad it's not my name or any of our coaches names tied to an article like that! I'm hoping the head coach/program director knew about the assistant going to the media before it was done. If not, that would be something I would probably let someone go over.

2. I've had issues at more than 1 nationals. It's a large event. Judges are human. Things happen. Sometimes UCA gets it right and sometimes they fall short. We've had years where I thought we placed better than we deserved and years where I thought we deserved better. Part of the game. Does it suck, of course. Will being salty to the media help or make your program look good, no!

3. Did you (not specifically you, more toward everyone) see Ravenwood? There were a couple of divisions that I thought placements were a little wacky, but medium varsity, they got 100% right. No one, on that day, was beating that routine. He needs to take the rose colored glasses off.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

My opinions on this...

1. I'm glad it's not my name or any of our coaches names tied to an article like that! I'm hoping the head coach/program director knew about the assistant going to the media before it was done. If not, that would be something I would probably let someone go over.

2. I've had issues at more than 1 nationals. It's a large event. Judges are human. Things happen. Sometimes UCA gets it right and sometimes they fall short. We've had years where I thought we placed better than we deserved and years where I thought we deserved better. Part of the game. Does it suck, of course. Will being salty to the media help or make your program look good, no!

3. Did you (not specifically you, more toward everyone) see Ravenwood? There were a couple of divisions that I thought placements were a little wacky, but medium varsity, they got 100% right. No one, on that day, was beating that routine. He needs to take the rose colored glasses off.

In reference to your #2. Why do cheer coaches do this stuff? It's not the fact that he is upset with the scoring or outcome. It's the idea of saying "we really won." Ummmm, even if the judges screwed up you didn't really win. The winner of the event was the other team. How many times in other athletic contests do you see an official's call impact the outcome of the game? Yet, most baseball, basketball, and football coaches will say "if we had done this, this and this, prior to that moment, it wouldn't have been close enough for that call to cost us the victory." In cheerleading, we demand to be given the victory.

 

[AScheer]

In reference to your #2. Why do cheer coaches do this stuff? It's not the fact that he is upset with the scoring or outcome. It's the idea of saying "we really won." Ummmm, even if the judges screwed up you didn't really win. The winner of the event was the other team. How many times in other athletic contests do you see an official's call impact the outcome of the game? Yet, most baseball, basketball, and football coaches will say "if we had done this, this and this, prior to that moment, it wouldn't have been close enough for that call to cost us the victory." In cheerleading, we demand to be given the victory.

Unfortunately, this is already staring to blow up on my Facebook timeline.

To me the worst part is that it seems this poor girl has been lead to believe, by her coaches, that she is the reason they didn't win. The news and cheer world are watching her drop a sign over and over again. And Ravenwoods title is being questioned, instead of celebrated. They don't deserve to have another teams coach to tarnish their win.

The reality is, while Scott County was really good, they don't come close to the difficultly range of Ravenwood. It was posted after the article that they scored a 6.5 in stunt difficulty, but a 9 the day before. If you watch only them, then 6.5 seems low. If you watch Ravenwood, then there is a huge difference between the difficulty and that has to be rewarded somehow. If there's only 10 points to give total, then how do you justify giving Scott Co a 9? That gives 1 point extra to reward Ravenwood, when there is a much bigger gap there in difficulty than 1 point. It's not allstars. There's no range or rubric, it's comparative to the other teams you're competing against. Ravenwood went before Scott Co in finals. Any judge on a comparative system wouldn't score Scott Co's difficulty at a 9 after watching Ravenwood come out and do what they did. What if they only gave Ravenwood a 9 for all of their stunts? Scott Co then couldn't get a 9 too for doing much less. My guess is if they did score a 9 the day before, then they probably went before Ravenwood (I'll have to dig my schedule out to see who went first.)

I highly doubt UCA verbally said they were actually the winners, but they won't change it. I've been at that judges stand to petition things. I don't think UCA would say those words to anyone, true or not, if for no other reason than to cover their own. It's all heresay at this point, from a clearly upset, salty coach. It's hard to take it as credible when a grown adult, who is supposed to set an example, wines to the press about not getting their way.

 

[coacha]

In reference to your #2. Why do cheer coaches do this stuff? It's not the fact that he is upset with the scoring or outcome. It's the idea of saying "we really won." Ummmm, even if the judges screwed up you didn't really win. The winner of the event was the other team. How many times in other athletic contests do you see an official's call impact the outcome of the game? Yet, most baseball, basketball, and football coaches will say "if we had done this, this and this, prior to that moment, it wouldn't have been close enough for that call to cost us the victory." In cheerleading, we demand to be given the victory.

Not all coaches in every sport will admit that doing A, B, and C would have prevented that call from costing them the game. There are (bad) coaches that will do the same thing in any sport. Heck, I've heard NFL coaches complain about calls costing them games.

Conversely, I like to think that not all cheer coaches do this kind of stuff.

Having said that, maybe I live in a fairy land, but I've always chalked comparative scoring to being just that - comparative. It's why I never really bought into Grand Champions when you are using multiple judging panels because not every judge is going to judge difficulty the same. What's important is not that you got a 6.5 from 1 judge and a 9 from another but that that judge was consistent among all the competitors. And as pointed out, I don't care what they got the first day, they were not as difficult as Ravenwood. And did the coach ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the 9 was wrong?

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Unfortunately, this is already staring to blow up on my Facebook timeline.

To me the worst part is that it seems this poor girl has been lead to believe, by her coaches, that she is the reason they didn't win. The news and cheer world are watching her drop a sign over and over again. And Ravenwoods title is being questioned, instead of celebrated. They don't deserve to have another teams coach to tarnish their win.

The reality is, while Scott County was really good, they don't come close to the difficultly range of Ravenwood. It was posted after the article that they scored a 6.5 in stunt difficulty, but a 9 the day before. If you watch only them, then 6.5 seems low. If you watch Ravenwood, then there is a huge difference between the difficulty and that has to be rewarded somehow. If there's only 10 points to give total, then how do you justify giving Scott Co a 9? That gives 1 point extra to reward Ravenwood, when there is a much bigger gap there in difficulty than 1 point. It's not allstars. There's no range or rubric, it's comparative to the other teams you're competing against. Ravenwood went before Scott Co in finals. Any judge on a comparative system wouldn't score Scott Co's difficulty at a 9 after watching Ravenwood come out and do what they did. What if they only gave Ravenwood a 9 for all of their stunts? Scott Co then couldn't get a 9 too for doing much less. My guess is if they did score a 9 the day before, then they probably went before Ravenwood (I'll have to dig my schedule out to see who went first.)

I highly doubt UCA verbally said they were actually the winners, but they won't change it. I've been at that judges stand to petition things. I don't think UCA would say those words to anyone, true or not, if for no other reason than to cover their own. It's all heresay at this point, from a clearly upset, salty coach. It's hard to take it as credible when a grown adult, who is supposed to set an example, wines to the press about not getting their way.

I agree. I also think that the scoring rubric/range approach creates more of these types of problems than it prevents. Had Ravenwood and Scott County even been in the same session? I am thinking Scott County advanced straight to finals from prelims, and if that's the case, there's a 50/50 shot they had actually been compared to Ravenwood (ie if Ravenwood was in prelim A and Scott Co in prelim B). We were actually in their division, and after seeing the teams in my prelim group, I was just thrilled to advance. Especially given everything my kids had been through in the 7 days leading up to nationals.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Not all coaches in every sport will admit that doing A, B, and C would have prevented that call from costing them the game. There are (bad) coaches that will do the same thing in any sport. Heck, I've heard NFL coaches complain about calls costing them games.

Conversely, I like to think that not all cheer coaches do this kind of stuff.

Having said that, maybe I live in a fairy land, but I've always chalked comparative scoring to being just that - comparative. It's why I never really bought into Grand Champions when you are using multiple judging panels because not every judge is going to judge difficulty the same. What's important is not that you got a 6.5 from 1 judge and a 9 from another but that that judge was consistent among all the competitors. And as pointed out, I don't care what they got the first day, they were not as difficult as Ravenwood. And did the coach ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the 9 was wrong?

I don't think all cheer coaches do this stuff, but I do hear SOMETHING like this at EVERY SINGLE COMPETITION. This is especially true in the all star world. At Jamfest Super Nationals, you can't buy ice cream at circle center mall without hearing someone in line behind you say, "well, our coaches told us that they admitted that we really won, but couldn't change it."

I feel strongly that UCA's comparative judging system in their high school divisions has produced, by far, the most consistent results that I've had as a coach. In two years, my teams have performed 10 times and all 10 divisions have been very consistently scored. I'm a cheer nerd who will sit down and watch every video of every team we competed against in reference to their final placing.

 

[CheerItFullOut]

I would have just told my kids-(if there really was a tabulation error) this means next year you come back and leave no shadow of a doubt that you ARE first and let nobody even come close to touching it.
It's fine to question a calculation or an error, but needing a public apology? This isn't what the competition is about. At the end of the day, white jackets get hung in closets... trophies get placed in cases ... but the lessons of accomplishing a skill, working together for goals, picking people up when they're down and teaching young kids to become young, productive, hardworking adults is what it's all about-
What DID they get blessed with out of this weekend instead of what did they NOT get...

 

[HC Coach]

Oh another congrats to HC Coach her team won game day!

Thank you!!!!!!

 

[HC Coach]

Helen Cox was so engaging... ! I'm so happy they won Game Day, you couldn't help but cheer with them!

Thank you so very much!!!

 

[HC Coach]

Thank you!!!

They're right by us so we see them at locals and clinics. They're always incredible to watch!

 

[HC Coach]

thats US TU !!! 5th - we will take it

Great job!!!!!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

The reality is, while Scott County was really good, they don't come close to the difficultly range of Ravenwood. It was posted after the article that they scored a 6.5 in stunt difficulty, but a 9 the day before. If you watch only them, then 6.5 seems low. If you watch Ravenwood, then there is a huge difference between the difficulty and that has to be rewarded somehow. If there's only 10 points to give total, then how do you justify giving Scott Co a 9? That gives 1 point extra to reward Ravenwood, when there is a much bigger gap there in difficulty than 1 point. It's not allstars. There's no range or rubric, it's comparative to the other teams you're competing against. Ravenwood went before Scott Co in finals. Any judge on a comparative system wouldn't score Scott Co's difficulty at a 9 after watching Ravenwood come out and do what they did. What if they only gave Ravenwood a 9 for all of their stunts? Scott Co then couldn't get a 9 too for doing much less. My guess is if they did score a 9 the day before, then they probably went before Ravenwood (I'll have to dig my schedule out to see who went first.)

THIS!!!

For the record, Scott County was GREAT! Very clean. They opened with H2H full aorund (2 leg), 3 standing fulls, rest standing tucks, round off tucks, 5 standing through to full, just regular single base stretched, bump down, full up to stretch, body positions, 6 more fulls, running, and a pyramid that was solid and a lot of spinning, but not extremely fast paced and not as visual. Cheer was clean and solid and the A sign probably didn't matter.

On the flipside, Ravenwood was INCREDIBLE!!!! Yes they had a pyramid issue, but up to that point, 2 standing fulls, 13/15 standing handsprings to fulls, 3 jump w/ variety to tuck combo, 4 double up stretch, squish tick full around to opposite lib, H2H through to arabesque, 14 running passes all with fulls, 5 tick up libs. Cheer was great, engaging, and solid. Yes pyramid issue, but all in all those bracer groups fully involved and they finished strong.

 

[tojofasho]

THIS!!!

For the record, Scott County was GREAT! Very clean. They opened with H2H full aorund (2 leg), 3 standing fulls, rest standing tucks, round off tucks, 5 standing through to full, just regular single base stretched, bump down, full up to stretch, body positions, 6 more fulls, running, and a pyramid that was solid and a lot of spinning, but not extremely fast paced and not as visual. Cheer was clean and solid and the A sign probably didn't matter.

On the flipside, Ravenwood was INCREDIBLE!!!! Yes they had a pyramid issue, but up to that point, 2 standing fulls, 13/15 standing handsprings to fulls, 3 jump w/ variety to tuck combo, 4 double up stretch, squish tick full around to opposite lib, H2H through to arabesque, 14 running passes all with fulls, 5 tick up libs. Cheer was great, engaging, and solid. Yes pyramid issue, but all in all those bracer groups fully involved and they finished strong.

So I just found the routines on youtube, and I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. Ravenwood was RIDICULOUS. A high school performing at that level is just insane to me. Wish I could've seen the pyramid in all its glory though :/ If anyone has a video of their first performance I'd love to see it!