High School Uca Nationals 2017

[LittleMissA17]

So I just found the routines on youtube, and I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. Ravenwood was RIDICULOUS. A high school performing at that level is just insane to me. Wish I could've seen the pyramid in all its glory though :/ If anyone has a video of their first performance I'd love to see it!

It's insane how new the program is yet they're this amazing!

 

[LittleMissA17]

Oh just learned for anyone without the per month subscription to the flo sports site you can view all the content for free a week after the event! I'm gonna watch NCA HS nationals now.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Not all coaches in every sport will admit that doing A, B, and C would have prevented that call from costing them the game. There are (bad) coaches that will do the same thing in any sport. Heck, I've heard NFL coaches complain about calls costing them games.

Conversely, I like to think that not all cheer coaches do this kind of stuff.

Having said that, maybe I live in a fairy land, but I've always chalked comparative scoring to being just that - comparative. It's why I never really bought into Grand Champions when you are using multiple judging panels because not every judge is going to judge difficulty the same. What's important is not that you got a 6.5 from 1 judge and a 9 from another but that that judge was consistent among all the competitors. And as pointed out, I don't care what they got the first day, they were not as difficult as Ravenwood. And did the coach ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the 9 was wrong?

Its funny, I get my score sheets and I look and at times I am like, WOW, we were completely over scored LOL

 

[CheerItFullOut]

On another note: Ravenswood has been in 2nd or 3rd EVERY YEAR now for the past what 5 years- it's about time they got their 1st Place! Happy for them! It was like that darn itch you just can't scratch! -

 

[Official OWECheer]

Ahhh. I see. The article did not go into that specific detail. We ran into that issue at uca nationals and they would not budge either yet we saw teams doing the same skill set as us getting higher difficulty scores. Sad situation for those girls.

Thatwould bug the whole crap out of me. Spending all of that $$$ only to not be judged fairly. I know we're a subjective sport, but certain things should be obvious and easy to judge objectively.

 

[BowsnBling]

Thatwould bug the whole crap out of me. Spending all of that $$$ only to not be judged fairly. I know we're a subjective sport, but certain things should be obvious and easy to judge objectively.

That was also the year that Kenny's ruby slipper grip came out and it was not getting scored as high as the original grip.

 

[coacha]

That was also the year that Kenny's ruby slipper grip came out and it was not getting scored as high as the original grip.

I was under the impression that it is still isn't scored as difficult as the original - because it isn't as difficult.

 

[tojofasho]

I was under the impression that it is still isn't scored as difficult as the original - because it isn't as difficult.

If I recall correctly, they score solely based on flyer hip rotation. We have a ruby slipper grip and a traditional grip in our routine and they both just get denoted as "full ups" on the scoresheet. I could very well be wrong, though.

 

[AScheer]

That was also the year that Kenny's ruby slipper grip came out and it was not getting scored as high as the original grip.

I was under the impression that it is still isn't scored as difficult as the original - because it isn't as difficult.

If I recall correctly, they score solely based on flyer hip rotation. We have a ruby slipper grip and a traditional grip in our routine and they both just get denoted as "full ups" on the scoresheet. I could very well be wrong, though.

I think this depends 100% on the competition company and who happens to be scoring. Personal opinion and bias is still in the judging here and I think a company making a statement one way or the other would help judges score consistently. In allstar it's all about hip rotation, regardless of what the bases do underneath. I can't speak for other school brand competitions, but what I know from UCA is the following...

Ruby slipper grip for just a plain full up will not count as a "real" full up and will not score as well as a real full up UNLESS it's to 1 foot. From my experience and what I've been told the order of difficulty is as follows... ruby slipper to two feet < true full up to two feet < ruby slipper to single leg body position < true full up to single leg body position. So if you're doing a true full up to two feet, then a ruby slipper to single leg body position will still out score you on difficulty. I personally feel a true full up to two feet is still much harder to do/teach than a ruby to one foot, but this is what I've been told and matches what I've witnessed.

Of course if you're using ruby slippers for 1.5 or double ups, then it is a true release skill like a true full up and will outscore all of the above.

 

[BowsnBling]

I think this depends 100% on the competition company and who happens to be scoring. Personal opinion and bias is still in the judging here and I think a company making a statement one way or the other would help judges score consistently. In allstar it's all about hip rotation, regardless of what the bases do underneath. I can't speak for other school brand competitions, but what I know from UCA is the following...

Ruby slipper grip for just a plain full up will not count as a "real" full up and will not score as well as a real full up UNLESS it's to 1 foot. From my experience and what I've been told the order of difficulty is as follows... ruby slipper to two feet < true full up to two feet < ruby slipper to single leg body position < true full up to single leg body position. So if you're doing a true full up to two feet, then a ruby slipper to single leg body position will still out score you on difficulty. I personally feel a true full up to two feet is still much harder to do/teach than a ruby to one foot, but this is what I've been told and matches what I've witnessed.

Of course if you're using ruby slippers for 1.5 or double ups, then it is a true release skill like a true full up and will outscore all of the above.

Exactly

 

[Hscoach10]

Unfortunately, this is already staring to blow up on my Facebook timeline.

To me the worst part is that it seems this poor girl has been lead to believe, by her coaches, that she is the reason they didn't win. The news and cheer world are watching her drop a sign over and over again. And Ravenwoods title is being questioned, instead of celebrated. They don't deserve to have another teams coach to tarnish their win.

The reality is, while Scott County was really good, they don't come close to the difficultly range of Ravenwood. It was posted after the article that they scored a 6.5 in stunt difficulty, but a 9 the day before. If you watch only them, then 6.5 seems low. If you watch Ravenwood, then there is a huge difference between the difficulty and that has to be rewarded somehow. If there's only 10 points to give total, then how do you justify giving Scott Co a 9? That gives 1 point extra to reward Ravenwood, when there is a much bigger gap there in difficulty than 1 point. It's not allstars. There's no range or rubric, it's comparative to the other teams you're competing against. Ravenwood went before Scott Co in finals. Any judge on a comparative system wouldn't score Scott Co's difficulty at a 9 after watching Ravenwood come out and do what they did. What if they only gave Ravenwood a 9 for all of their stunts? Scott Co then couldn't get a 9 too for doing much less. My guess is if they did score a 9 the day before, then they probably went before Ravenwood (I'll have to dig my schedule out to see who went first.)

I highly doubt UCA verbally said they were actually the winners, but they won't change it. I've been at that judges stand to petition things. I don't think UCA would say those words to anyone, true or not, if for no other reason than to cover their own. It's all heresay at this point, from a clearly upset, salty coach. It's hard to take it as credible when a grown adult, who is supposed to set an example, wines to the press about not getting their way.

A little late on this but we are in the division and there was less than 1 point Betweem 1-5th Place. So even if they had just been scored a 7.5 in difficulty they would have won. There were a few other judging mistakes/ misses etc in division- a shame but there is no denying both teams were great. Medium 1 is always a strong division! I also heard it was not head coach who commented in this article and it was a parent who called the paper!

 

[AndyT_T]

So I just found the routines on youtube, and I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. Ravenwood was RIDICULOUS. A high school performing at that level is just insane to me. Wish I could've seen the pyramid in all its glory though :/ If anyone has a video of their first performance I'd love to see it!

I haven't seen the other video, but how did the pyramid falls not destroy their chances?