High School Ugh (lack Of Discipline / Motivation)

[cheer25mom]

Interesting to know, I've never heard of that. Is that back east where cheerleading is big? I'm genuinely curious, our school couldn't give two poops what our cheer team does as long as we practice and show up to support the other teams on campus, so I doubt they'd ever move to a system like that. But I'd love to know where that does happen, that's awesome!

The Deep South. Cheer and Football run the schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Official OWECheer]

So as a math teacher/coach, I really like putting things numerically because it helps me process. If you don't like numbers, probably don't read this post. I'm 100% probably going to accidentally offend someone with what I'm about to say, but I swear that's not my intention. I JUST WANT TO BREAK IT DOWN.

Let me start by saying that there are some terrible coaches out there and I'm sorry if you've dealt with one in your experience. I've had parents who have literally thought I was the worst coach ever because I wasn't the same as the old coach, and who said I did it for the money or the power (that one makes me laugh, we have no power). But I guarantee that almost everyone who coaches either care about kids or cares about cheer; if they're coaching a high school team (all star I can't speak to), we are making a decent wage, but not a great one, and definitely not one that's worth all the hassle unless you truly love the sport.

Now let's break it down! Every teacher/cheer coach I've ever spoken to gets one of the things you listed - either the class period where they coach instead of teach (with maybe a small $500 stipend added on), or the 'substantial' paycheck (around $3000, pre tax). My school goes with the second option, but let me tell you, even if I was a terrible coach who only put in the bare minimum, I would not be making very much per hour when you break it down.

Let's say I only do 4 hours of practice a week, attended all home football (4 hours each), away football (5.5 hours with driving time on average), and home basketball (2.5 hours each) games, and did not compete or work at all outside of practice on anything. These are the terms listed in my contract, so they're all I really 'need' to do to get the job (though I probably wouldn't be able to keep it past a year).

The contracted cheer coaching season is 31 weeks from August to February (and then you take out 3 weeks for fall/winter breaks, since I'm a terrible coach and wouldn't dream of practicing over them, bringing it down to 28 weeks total). Assuming I put in that measly 4 hours every week, that's 112 hours of practice time.
For my five home football games, that's 20 hours.
For my five away games, that's 27.5 hours.
For my home basketball games (both men and women is twenty two total), I'm adding 55 hours.
So by putting in the absolute bare minimum contract hours, the coach is still putting in 214.5 hours. Pre-tax, that's making a little under $14 per hour.
Keep in mind this shows none of the behind-the-scene work (choreographing routines, putting in facility requests, going through finances, ordering materials, finding a practice location, attending any outside team event, etc.). Many people who have never coached don't realize how much time is spent outside of practice on these girls - to put it in perspective, I spend about 2-3 hours per week doing all of these things (then again, I also practice for 10 hours a week with my girls so clearly I'm not doing the bare minimum, but still, even a crappy coach would probably do like 30 minutes of this stuff a week because they had to).

So yeah, $14 per hour. That's more than minimum wage, sure, but it's nothing groundbreaking. And that's with the bare minimum workload. To put that $14 per hour into perspective, my first summer job was as a lifeguard - and I made $15 per hour when I did that while eighteen years old. Plus, here in AZ you can lifeguard year round, so in theory I would make way more as a lifeguard than I would as a sucky cheer coach.

Now again, this is just my personal experience, and I'm sure the pay amounts vary between schools, districts, states, etc., but I doubt anyone coaching in the high school setting is making anything close to a substantial wage. Sure they may suck, but they're not doing it for the money. They probably just aren't passionate about what they do and are just trying to make it through the year - if they really were the absolute worst, they would just quit halfway through the season and ruin the team. So they're staying in it for some reason.

This is the end of my very lengthy math post. I apologize to anyone who I offended with my math speak, or anyone I accidentally offended by talking about coaching. Anyone who read this far, you get all the shimmies in my heart.

Like others have said, it varies across the country. But I shimmied because I'm a fellow math person.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Slightly off topic, but the lack of respect by some to me this year has been crazy, we are so behind b/c we can't accomplish anything, and last week I finally laid the smack down and I am ignoring or giving consequences to the below.. but here is my rant about teenagers.

OK, I have kids that are making me feel like the "worst coach ever". God forbid I give a correction on a skill (I have experience and bring in when I feel that it's out of my realm and know we need a new voice). Once you reiterate use your legs, be sure you are close, it's automatic shut down and I think they are terrible. Yet when good saves are made, when corrections are taken, when things are well timed, I'm the first one to be jumping up and down and excited and acknowledging the good!

We have been nationally competitive (taking time off due to financial reasons and lack of fundraising/parent commitment), competitive in our state which is starting to explode, we do well in competitions, they look great on a game sideline. I can go through all of the positives. We are not terrible, the team is talented and has so much room to improve, we can full up using traditional 360 grip to extension, almost to lib, we invert to skills, we switch up, low to high tick tocks, full around almost to extended level. 10/12 tumbling passes, 7 tuck and above. I have been with this program for 5 years (but all in all 17 years with other programs/levels) inherited very basic up and down skills, no spinning, no transitional elements.. and many of these kids didn't cheer except for mid-commitment middle school before this. To add, when I ask for something to be watered down (perhaps to just make it easier for the time being to accomplish something) it's constant attitude, it's why we only messed up once (meanwhile my staff and I are seeing the fatigue), yet we say all jumps and standing tumbling all the time, the same 2-3 opt out (this is another situation in which the entire team receives consequences). But I am the worst coach, ever. There is zero respect from a handful. It's a horrible case of senioritis and it needs to go. God forbid we do a portion of the routine more then 1 time, b/c if it didn't fall down once we must be perfect but coach just hates us. I make them think they are terrible. I give them no say (b/c who does in a highly competitive routine except maybe if counts are rushed to help them clean it up). What if I correct an arm motion or a formation, even worse then the worst coach ever.

I got "criticized" by a kid who insists another team has good tumbling b/c of where they go. What I can say is these kids work for their tumbling and came in with most of it. This is the same kid who has a standing tuck and a round off handspring tuck and walks away when I say that looks great and the tumble instructor says she ready to go herself. Her answer is, yeah, NO. BUT I AM THE WORST COACH EVER!

Let's just realize that if I didn't do all of this and push them and sent them out on the mat ill prepared, I would still be the worst coach ever. I basically can't do anything right. I go for the ones who do appreciate it. And for the others, Graduation is in June. I know most of the seniors and the underclassmen appreciate it all and also, the classmates and teammates are starting to get frustrated too, but all in all, it's taxing and taking the fact we don't make a lot of money, have full time jobs, other responsibilities, families, etc, to be "the worst coach ever" is getting old.

 

[tojofasho]

Slightly off topic, but the lack of respect by some to me this year has been crazy, we are so behind b/c we can't accomplish anything, and last week I finally laid the smack down and I am ignoring or giving consequences to the below.. but here is my rant about teenagers.

OK, I have kids that are making me feel like the "worst coach ever". God forbid I give a correction on a skill (I have experience and bring in when I feel that it's out of my realm and know we need a new voice). Once you reiterate use your legs, be sure you are close, it's automatic shut down and I think they are terrible. Yet when good saves are made, when corrections are taken, when things are well timed, I'm the first one to be jumping up and down and excited and acknowledging the good!

We have been nationally competitive (taking time off due to financial reasons and lack of fundraising/parent commitment), competitive in our state which is starting to explode, we do well in competitions, they look great on a game sideline. I can go through all of the positives. We are not terrible, the team is talented and has so much room to improve, we can full up using traditional 360 grip to extension, almost to lib, we invert to skills, we switch up, low to high tick tocks, full around almost to extended level. 10/12 tumbling passes, 7 tuck and above. I have been with this program for 5 years (but all in all 17 years with other programs/levels) inherited very basic up and down skills, no spinning, no transitional elements.. and many of these kids didn't cheer except for mid-commitment middle school before this. To add, when I ask for something to be watered down (perhaps to just make it easier for the time being to accomplish something) it's constant attitude, it's why we only messed up once (meanwhile my staff and I are seeing the fatigue), yet we say all jumps and standing tumbling all the time, the same 2-3 opt out (this is another situation in which the entire team receives consequences). But I am the worst coach, ever. There is zero respect from a handful. It's a horrible case of senioritis and it needs to go. God forbid we do a portion of the routine more then 1 time, b/c if it didn't fall down once we must be perfect but coach just hates us. I make them think they are terrible. I give them no say (b/c who does in a highly competitive routine except maybe if counts are rushed to help them clean it up). What if I correct an arm motion or a formation, even worse then the worst coach ever.

I got "criticized" by a kid who insists another team has good tumbling b/c of where they go. What I can say is these kids work for their tumbling and came in with most of it. This is the same kid who has a standing tuck and a round off handspring tuck and walks away when I say that looks great and the tumble instructor says she ready to go herself. Her answer is, yeah, NO. BUT I AM THE WORST COACH EVER!

Let's just realize that if I didn't do all of this and push them and sent them out on the mat ill prepared, I would still be the worst coach ever. I basically can't do anything right. I go for the ones who do appreciate it. And for the others, Graduation is in June. I know most of the seniors and the underclassmen appreciate it all and also, the classmates and teammates are starting to get frustrated too, but all in all, it's taxing and taking the fact we don't make a lot of money, have full time jobs, other responsibilities, families, etc, to be "the worst coach ever" is getting old.

As a fellow "worst coach ever", I feel you. I can't do much except give you virtual hugs, but you can get those in droves. Try to stay focused on the kids who love and appreciate you - they can overshadow the negativity a bit and it really helps me get through the days when I focus on the one girl who says "thanks coach!" instead of the four girls who say "why did my stunt group get switched we were hitting before it's not my fault the other group couldn't hit blah blah blah".

Stay strong! Feel free to always vent!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

As a fellow "worst coach ever", I feel you. I can't do much except give you virtual hugs, but you can get those in droves. Try to stay focused on the kids who love and appreciate you - they can overshadow the negativity a bit and it really helps me get through the days when I focus on the one girl who says "thanks coach!" instead of the four girls who say "why did my stunt group get switched we were hitting before it's not my fault the other group couldn't hit blah blah blah".

Stay strong! Feel free to always vent!

Thanks! I appreciate that. I know I do something right, and at the end of the day, we had a girl transfer and she was at a town event and ran up to me and gave me the biggest hug.. so again, it's 3-4 and there are quite a few thank you's at the end of a practice, but they definitely overshadow! I just wish kids and parents understood everything that goes into it! The math wizard above has really hit the nail on the head!

 

[Tealxblack25]

Slightly off topic, but the lack of respect by some to me this year has been crazy, we are so behind b/c we can't accomplish anything, and last week I finally laid the smack down and I am ignoring or giving consequences to the below.. but here is my rant about teenagers.

OK, I have kids that are making me feel like the "worst coach ever". God forbid I give a correction on a skill (I have experience and bring in when I feel that it's out of my realm and know we need a new voice). Once you reiterate use your legs, be sure you are close, it's automatic shut down and I think they are terrible. Yet when good saves are made, when corrections are taken, when things are well timed, I'm the first one to be jumping up and down and excited and acknowledging the good!

We have been nationally competitive (taking time off due to financial reasons and lack of fundraising/parent commitment), competitive in our state which is starting to explode, we do well in competitions, they look great on a game sideline. I can go through all of the positives. We are not terrible, the team is talented and has so much room to improve, we can full up using traditional 360 grip to extension, almost to lib, we invert to skills, we switch up, low to high tick tocks, full around almost to extended level. 10/12 tumbling passes, 7 tuck and above. I have been with this program for 5 years (but all in all 17 years with other programs/levels) inherited very basic up and down skills, no spinning, no transitional elements.. and many of these kids didn't cheer except for mid-commitment middle school before this. To add, when I ask for something to be watered down (perhaps to just make it easier for the time being to accomplish something) it's constant attitude, it's why we only messed up once (meanwhile my staff and I are seeing the fatigue), yet we say all jumps and standing tumbling all the time, the same 2-3 opt out (this is another situation in which the entire team receives consequences). But I am the worst coach, ever. There is zero respect from a handful. It's a horrible case of senioritis and it needs to go. God forbid we do a portion of the routine more then 1 time, b/c if it didn't fall down once we must be perfect but coach just hates us. I make them think they are terrible. I give them no say (b/c who does in a highly competitive routine except maybe if counts are rushed to help them clean it up). What if I correct an arm motion or a formation, even worse then the worst coach ever.

I got "criticized" by a kid who insists another team has good tumbling b/c of where they go. What I can say is these kids work for their tumbling and came in with most of it. This is the same kid who has a standing tuck and a round off handspring tuck and walks away when I say that looks great and the tumble instructor says she ready to go herself. Her answer is, yeah, NO. BUT I AM THE WORST COACH EVER!

Let's just realize that if I didn't do all of this and push them and sent them out on the mat ill prepared, I would still be the worst coach ever. I basically can't do anything right. I go for the ones who do appreciate it. And for the others, Graduation is in June. I know most of the seniors and the underclassmen appreciate it all and also, the classmates and teammates are starting to get frustrated too, but all in all, it's taxing and taking the fact we don't make a lot of money, have full time jobs, other responsibilities, families, etc, to be "the worst coach ever" is getting old.

I feel like you just took the words right out of my mouth... add in a little teenage drama and we are twins!!

 

[cheer25mom]

Thanks! I appreciate that. I know I do something right, and at the end of the day, we had a girl transfer and she was at a town event and ran up to me and gave me the biggest hug.. so again, it's 3-4 and there are quite a few thank you's at the end of a practice, but they definitely overshadow! I just wish kids and parents understood everything that goes into it! The math wizard above has really hit the nail on the head!

My biggest "worst coach ever" moment was at the hands of second grade PARENTS. They thought I was "too harsh" because I enforced some sort of organization and asked that their children actually pay attention for the ONE HOUR a week I had them. We had 2 squads and they wanted to be n the "fun squad" that played all the time. Fast forward to halfway through the season. They all wanted to come back because my team had cheers and halftime dance while the other coach was herding cats. Last time I coached elementary school anything.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I feel like you just took the words right out of my mouth... add in a little teenage drama and we are twins!!

Oh that too, we don't like this person b/c she said this and this person said that (I just ignore all of it!) #twinning <3 the support on this board from all!

 

[KPep]

I got some worst coach moments too.

Last year, a girl threatened to skip a competition without warning if I kept annoying her (wuut?). She said I didn't like her because I didn't like her sister a few years ago... She also bullied her flyer by Facebook (!!!!) when she got hurt.

I met het with our sports coordinator and told her I was giving her spot in her stunt group away, and that she could get it back when she showed signs of a better work ethic. I told her she lost my trust and she had to work to get it back.

She showed to practise, talked to every rookies, and quit the team. I learned later that she told everyone I kicked her out of the team.

Now this year, her mom called our new (but not so new) sports coordinator to know if I was still coaching. When she learned that I was, indeed, still there, she said she'd call the principal to make me lose my job. When my boss told me, I laughed and explained everything (the bullying and the threats). When the mom realised that my boss knew everything, she decided not to call the principal. Fun fact: I had the same kind of trouble with the older sister. What do they say about the apple and the tree?


On my second year with this team, a parent yelled at me in front of every other parents, athletes and coaches. She was mad because I didn't make the team warm up at the last competition. That was the most... WTF moment of my coaching life. I told her that I always do (WHO DOESN'T????) and that it is a part of the competition schedule anyway. She never apologized. But I wasn't surprised: her daughter... was really something. One time, she threatened to destroy my reputation in the School Board (her mom is a teacher, so am I) because she came as an alumni to a practice and disturbed it so I told her not to come visit us anymore...........................

So I pretty much suck as a coach.

Kidding. I think I am doing a good job. Many parents like me, alumni and actual athletes like me too, and I developped a few kids who are now on All-Stars teams (4 on a level 5 Worlds, that makes me super proud). Plus, if you don't pat yourself on the back once in a while, who's gonna do it? Except Fierceboard I mean?

 

[vannahlexis]

Slightly off topic, but the lack of respect by some to me this year has been crazy, we are so behind b/c we can't accomplish anything, and last week I finally laid the smack down and I am ignoring or giving consequences to the below.. but here is my rant about teenagers.

OK, I have kids that are making me feel like the "worst coach ever". God forbid I give a correction on a skill (I have experience and bring in when I feel that it's out of my realm and know we need a new voice). Once you reiterate use your legs, be sure you are close, it's automatic shut down and I think they are terrible. Yet when good saves are made, when corrections are taken, when things are well timed, I'm the first one to be jumping up and down and excited and acknowledging the good!

We have been nationally competitive (taking time off due to financial reasons and lack of fundraising/parent commitment), competitive in our state which is starting to explode, we do well in competitions, they look great on a game sideline. I can go through all of the positives. We are not terrible, the team is talented and has so much room to improve, we can full up using traditional 360 grip to extension, almost to lib, we invert to skills, we switch up, low to high tick tocks, full around almost to extended level. 10/12 tumbling passes, 7 tuck and above. I have been with this program for 5 years (but all in all 17 years with other programs/levels) inherited very basic up and down skills, no spinning, no transitional elements.. and many of these kids didn't cheer except for mid-commitment middle school before this. To add, when I ask for something to be watered down (perhaps to just make it easier for the time being to accomplish something) it's constant attitude, it's why we only messed up once (meanwhile my staff and I are seeing the fatigue), yet we say all jumps and standing tumbling all the time, the same 2-3 opt out (this is another situation in which the entire team receives consequences). But I am the worst coach, ever. There is zero respect from a handful. It's a horrible case of senioritis and it needs to go. God forbid we do a portion of the routine more then 1 time, b/c if it didn't fall down once we must be perfect but coach just hates us. I make them think they are terrible. I give them no say (b/c who does in a highly competitive routine except maybe if counts are rushed to help them clean it up). What if I correct an arm motion or a formation, even worse then the worst coach ever.

I got "criticized" by a kid who insists another team has good tumbling b/c of where they go. What I can say is these kids work for their tumbling and came in with most of it. This is the same kid who has a standing tuck and a round off handspring tuck and walks away when I say that looks great and the tumble instructor says she ready to go herself. Her answer is, yeah, NO. BUT I AM THE WORST COACH EVER!

Let's just realize that if I didn't do all of this and push them and sent them out on the mat ill prepared, I would still be the worst coach ever. I basically can't do anything right. I go for the ones who do appreciate it. And for the others, Graduation is in June. I know most of the seniors and the underclassmen appreciate it all and also, the classmates and teammates are starting to get frustrated too, but all in all, it's taxing and taking the fact we don't make a lot of money, have full time jobs, other responsibilities, families, etc, to be "the worst coach ever" is getting old.

Oh my god I relate to this so much!!!! My girls literally hate me but like what am I supposed to do?? Let them talk and goof around all practice? Probs not- I want to win.

I've tried to give them cool, new, difficult stunts to do but "they don't feel comfortable" trying them, I've tried making them clean the stunts they do have but they "already did that 3 times", so I'm not sure what to do about that.

Tumbling is at a complete halt even though they have a fantastic coach that comes in once a week. We actually lied and told them he wasn't coming anymore because they weren't making any progress. Which honestly isn't a total lie- he's frustrated. Since we told them that, they've been freaking out saying they'd work harder, blah, blah, blah... But our first competition is next month!!! Don't you think it's a little late to start trying NOW? They practiced all summer and have nothing to show for it.

NOW they're annoyed because we have to put the lowest scoring skills in our round 2 (the tumbling/precision round-- we need 6 girls doing the same exact thing with at LEAST 3 skills). Last year they had back handsprings, back walkovers, back extension rolls, etc., This year we are probably going to have to put in forward rolls and one handed cartwheels. Which is fine for some teams, but this one could be SO TALENTED. I stressed all summer that we need round 2 skills and they kept saying, "oh we'll have it before comp season". We have absolutely nothing. No round 2 skills. I tried to teach them alternative, easy, higher scoring skills (front walkovers/handsprings, valdezs, drilled back extension rolls) all summer and they thought I was insane. And here we are, 0 skills to put in. I feel like it's my fault, but there's nothing I can do about them not wanting to work for it.

So glad I'm not the only "worst coach ever".

 

[AScheer]

LOL! Do you have any idea how little cheer coaches make? I could make more per hour at McDonalds.

I could work at McDonalds for $1 an hour and still make more. A lot more! I've done the math... I pay to coach at the school I'm at. It's a negative balance.

 

[coacha]

I could work at McDonalds for $1 an hour and still make more. A lot more! I've done the math... I pay to coach at the school I'm at. It's a negative balance.

I've done the math too, and it ain't pretty. I'm in the positive right now, but not by much.

 

[catlady]

Cp has an extremely focused friend that is basically the master of keeping things on track and he does it simply by asking questions any time they're off topic. What are we working on today? How do we do that? Can I get our group and you show us how? Can we have a competition by group? (I'm relating this to cheer instead of their science projects). I'm not even sure he realizes what he is doing but, I do know he can't stand being off task and he manages to get people focused again without confronting anyone. It's worth a try.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I don't coach (yet) so this is probably easier said than experienced/done... but it really is so much better to be the good coach that the parents and kids hate (ungrateful brats lol) but respect because in won't take their crap. I can feel all of your frustration. I feel like parents often dont know what they want; they might hate what you do, but it brings their kid success. Take hard conditioning and frequent practices, for example; kids complain because it's hard, parents complain because they think you're pushing the kids too hard, but these are the same people who will practically cry tears of joy at a win on competition day.... but then go right back to complaining. Season after season. LOL. C'est la vie.

@vannahlexis ecstatic to hear that you're coaching! Maybe they need to lose and suffer the embarrassment/ego blow and regret that comes with not having prepared sufficiently for a competition.

 

[tojofasho]

I could work at McDonalds for $1 an hour and still make more. A lot more! I've done the math... I pay to coach at the school I'm at. It's a negative balance.

Suddenly I am grateful that mine breaks down to $2.50 an hour - a negative balance would be just enough to make me reconsider coaching.