USASF Regional Mtg: Great Lakes

[King]

isn't that just another hassle for a team mom to deal with AND possibly lose?

 

[lovecheering]

Very true, but I would trust the team mom much more than each individual athlete parent. I've seen parents or kids forget everything from bows to bloomers. Personally, I am all for the shoe tags. Put it on the shoe at the beginning of the season and it always stays there until the end.

isn't that just another hassle for a team mom to deal with AND possibly lose?

 

[cheerkidzmom]

would you be able to track where the athlete was in the venue? That seems a little dangerous for some extreme circumstances: child custody problems, stalkers, pedophiles. I know you are talking about it being a secure system, but anyone in the computer industry will tell you, no system is completely secure. And would this system, which we would want to keep as inexpensive as possible, have the latest high tech security, firewalls etc...

 

[King]

would you be able to track where the athlete was in the venue? That seems a little dangerous for some extreme circumstances: child custody problems, stalkers, pedophiles. I know you are talking about it being a secure system, but anyone in the computer industry will tell you, no system is completely secure. And would this system, which we would want to keep as inexpensive as possible, have the latest high tech security, firewalls etc...

Yes, you would. But if developed right and stored in layers there would be no problem. Here is how:

The RFID tag ONLY carries the USASF number. This is a common mistake by a lot of people to store actual information on the RFID tag. If it is just a number to find it would mean nothing. Tracking the athletes around the entire venue would also mean ONLY storing the number. If number 882465 hit these 5 places to the observer it would mean nothing.

Then at the event you would have to go to a secure database to match up the number to an athletes picture and first name only (no other information could be pulled while at the event except at one master database station).

I kinda wish I could draw it out to explain, but security is not difficult if you have a bunch of set knowns and control all the machines that would access the database.

If a someone wanted to access where a specific kid is at that moment he/she would:

Have to find a way to figure out what the USASF number is. Break into a secure wireless network (which isn't impossible but takes usually a few weeks to do), crack open an SSL or VPN connection to the main database (which again could be done over a period of weeks), figure out what calls can be made to what database server to finally pull out the individual picture information and first name (because that is all that is allowed at a remote location) and then cross reference that to the stored information of what child crossed location check point and when and then go and find that child.

or

He/she could just walk around the competition until they found the uniform of the team the child is on

 

[King]

As far as expense the usasf will already be having a database of athletes. And at a competition whether there id a card or rfid system the same basic security will have to apply. Card stations at the front will have to access the database to reprint cards.

I think the key is how the users interact with with system. If you can put on a shoe tag on the foot so the athlete doesn't have to do one thing extra but get the same benefits to me that makes more sense.

Last argument for rfid over id cards. One of the points of the system is to prevent cheating. With a picture ID card every single athlete would have to be hand inspected by an employee. At a small comp its no big deal, but an NCA or Cheersport (where people are most likely to cheat because those comps matter more) there would be an enormous amount of athletes to check. I have snuck into enough cheer comps to tell you no matter how hard they try they can be snuck in. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the picture on the card?

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[Level5Mom]

King how would we prevent 2 athletes from switching shoe tags ?

 

[King]

You can't. But you can give incentives and reasons to want to keep your own tag on, as well as verification of who competed where.

A simple solution I think that should be put into place before any athlete system is even created (and do this for at least the worlds teams) is to take a picture right before a team takes the floor. This would be a visual record of who is on the floor. And, since kids are the worst at keeping secrets, if a team did decide to cheat and another gym wanted to call them out there would be a visual picture right there to inspect.

Then, we approach the situation of what all would switching shoe tags try to accomplish? An athlete who is registered at an even and paid their own money through their own account to compete would be giving away their money and spot to another athlete to take their place. Where would the reward be for the individual athlete who paid the money? It would probably have to be inter-gym (because they would need to be wearing the same uniform) and maybe they would put an older 7th grader with a double on a youth level 3 team? It is not like the situation could not happen, but there are a lot of moving pieces to the puzzle and very little reward.

You cannot 100% prevent cheating, but you can make it difficult AND a PITA.

The argument will be that it would be very hard to switch cards on athletes because you can instantly look at a picture on a card and tell if that is or is not the athlete. Anyone who has ever used an older friend or siblings ID to buy alcohol will tell you that to a person you dont know you can kinda look like anyone. And workers at a competition are going to mostly be from a security company and will in general not give two flips if the picture is even that close. Smaller competitions would be better, but again cute little brunette on a picture could look like 500 kids (especially at our gym where we have them all put on a clean similar look).

 

[King]

Also, ID cards only identify an individual is the same one as the card. Not what team they are on. So it would be easier to plug in a different registered USASF athlete if it was a card based system.

RFID tags can be tied to a giant monitor that can instantly bring up a picture when walked over while entering warmsups / leaving the floor if you really want.

 

[Deleted member 15]

My thought was to use the barcode to access the same database the RFID is accessing and use the picture on the card as a secondary ID.

 

[King]

but then youve added a manual process.

aka checkin at the atlanta airport vs. a road race where you run over the start and finish line and it automatically figures out your running times.

 

[Level5Mom]

I've got it!!! Retinal scans!!

 

[King]

I actually designed this system to be upgraded to that. The medium is different, the backend is not.

http://gizmodo.com/5615901/the-end-of-privacy-has-started-in-the-city-of-leon

We are 5 years away from the iris scanning in Minority Report (basically scanning your iris from a distance of 30 or so feet from the scanner in real time)

 

[Deleted member 15]

but then youve added a manual process.

aka checkin at the atlanta airport vs. a road race where you run over the start and finish line and it automatically figures out your running times.

Is there someone looking at the info that comes up when someone is identified?

 

[King]

Another manual process. You cannot spot check (randomly check every other person) or check every indivual (too many). An incentive needs to be discovered to keep your individual shoetag on.

If done correctly remember that a roster for the team that is about to compete has already been compiled. Which team is about to compete can be 'discovered' by what members cross the line. If there isn't 100% compliance when the team walks over it can be displayed easily to a staff member they are short or have extra people, just the first name (and possible picture if selected) to see who didnt comply.

I think the reliance on any manual process will be the breakdown if the process is repetitive. Especially by the end of the day.

 

[King]

What if the shoe tag had a picture?

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