All-Star Watered Down Competition Schedule

[ATX Cheer Dad]

Hey all,

I was hoping to get the board's perspective on competition schedules. My daughter is on a Youth 3 team in Texas, and the gym recently rolled out our schedule. Where last year's level 3 team from the gym went to NCA Nationals, ACA Nationals, the Spirit Celebration Christmas Classic and a couple of other 2-day competitions, our schedule includes three 1-day competitions and none of the bigger competitions that I mentioned above. Needless to say, many of the team parents are not terribly happy with this.

I've tried to connect with the gym owner to voice my displeasure, but so far I've not been able to catch up with him. Should I be annoyed by this? To my knowledge, the gym has never had this watered down a schedule so I was a bit surprised. I'd welcome any insights from the board, especially from those that may have dealt with a similar situation.

Thanks in advance,
ATX CD

 

[BowsnBling]

Compared to last season have your fees for competitions decreased, increased or remained the same? Is your Youth 3 a new Youth 3?

 

[njallday]

I understand frustration if you expected the schedule to be on-par with last season.

Did a lot of parents complain last year about prices/travel/burnout? Is it possible that's where these change were coming from? Or, is your gym hopping on board with lower commitment/less travel teams and happened to make the youth 3 team one of those? Have they made changes to the entire gym's schedule or only youth 3? Is it possible they're downsizing the competitions for youth teams and below to place less financial burden and chance of burnout on the younger kids? Do you also have a watered down fee schedule? If you have all inclusive pricing, has it decreased?

Of course, all of those questions are ones that should be addressed by an owner/gym administrator.

 

[ATX Cheer Dad]

My thoughts included below. Good to know that others are thinking about the same sorts of possible rationales, but unfortunately they just don't seem to apply here. It's pretty frustrating.

I understand frustration if you expected the schedule to be on-par with last season.

Did a lot of parents complain last year about prices/travel/burnout? Is it possible that's where these change were coming from?
I don't think so. It's never been a loaded schedule (generally 5 competitions + showoff, all driving distance), so I'd be surprised if anyone has complained about that sort of thing.

Or, is your gym hopping on board with lower commitment/less travel teams and happened to make the youth 3 team one of those?
Nope - practice schedules have remained consistent, and no change was suggested prior to the start of the season.

Have they made changes to the entire gym's schedule or only youth 3?
Almost all of the all-star teams' schedules have been watered down, the more junior teams moreso than the others. (For example, the J4 and S3 teams are going to NCA, but have dropped the SC Christmas Celebration and ACA Nationals for 1-day events.)

Is it possible they're downsizing the competitions for youth teams and below to place less financial burden and chance of burnout on the younger kids?
Nothing like this was mentioned before the start of the season, and the only difference in terms of travel costs are the extra nights in the hotels. (I personally am not a fan of driving 3-4 hours each way for 1 day of competition.) Several parents on our Mini2 team last year had asked about NCA specifically because we skipped it and were led to believe the level 3 teams would all go to NCA this year, so they were especially annoyed.

Do you also have a watered down fee schedule? If you have all inclusive pricing, has it decreased?
Pricing isn't all-inclusive and has, in fact, gone up modestly from last year (+ a super-pricey new unis, especially for what feels like a AS prep schedule).

Of course, all of those questions are ones that should be addressed by an owner/gym administrator.

 

[cheermomforever]

None of us can answer why....yo as parent need to request a sit down with the coach to get your answers and voice your concerns.

 

[CoachMandiCF]

There are many factors at play for many gyms right now. Coaches costs to attend 2 day National are sky rocketing. That may be one, but after you sit down with your owner or director, I’m sure they can give you a better understanding.

We do a survey every year to gauge where our parents are with the comp schedule, and we over communicate so they know the why’s of what we do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[123jump4!]

As discussed in the Summit changes thread, wildcard bids are now more attractive. 5 teams advance directly to finals. Maybe that's why your gym is doing more 1 day comps?

 

[BlueCat]

Speaking as a gym that has all-inclusive pricing - one of our biggest challenges is dealing with the rapidly increasing event prices. Our customers haven't been exposed to event prices as much as those under a different pricing model. As a percentage, event costs have gone up FAR faster than tuition has increased, making it a bigger portion of expenses every season and driving margins down significantly. This is particularly true for the Varsity/Summit bid events. We have been torn trying to decide between huge raises in tuition and making changes to the competition schedule.

Like most big decisions in our business, ultimately we try to keep a balance between varying customer opinions. Some want a dizzying array of team gifts, some don't want to mess with those at all. Some want to compete more, some less. Some are willing to keep paying higher and higher fees to go to 2-day events, some want costs lower. Some complain about not having the latest and greatest uniforms, some want less expensive options. Some parents want to go the the biggest events, others want to strategically find the easiest/surest path to Summit bids. As a gym, no matter where you choose to land on those spectrums, there will be a sizeable number of customers upset with some of your decisions.

I would strongly suggest you speak to your gym owner/director if you have concerns. Complaining about it online (or just to other parents) doesn't typically help the situation much.

 

[ATX Cheer Dad]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm definitely going to discuss with the owner - just wanted to get a sense of whether my frustration was reasonable.

 

[alpaca]

The comp schedule at CP's gym stayed approximately the same, but tuition went up. The gym has to pass along the increased fee's associated with competing. I was made aware of/warned of this early last season when Varsity acquisitions happened.

Are saying that the same level team last year attended at least five 2-days comps and the schedule this year is for three 1-day comps. And you are paying the same tuition? Yes, absolutely speak with the gym owner about this and find out what the gyms strategy is this year.

 

[ATX Cheer Dad]

The comp schedule at CP's gym stayed approximately the same, but tuition went up. The gym has to pass along the increased fee's associated with competing. I was made aware of/warned of this early last season when Varsity acquisitions happened.

Are saying that the same level team last year attended at least five 2-days comps and the schedule this year is for three 1-day comps. And you are paying the same tuition? Yes, absolutely speak with the gym owner about this and find out what the gyms artery is this year.

Actually, it's worse than that (although I'll concede that it's not entirely apples-to-apples because our team is a Y3 and they only had a J3 last year). This year, our Y3 has two 2-day competitions vs. the five 2-day competitions the J3 team had last year. And the fees have gone up modestly, with no mention that the competition schedule would be meaningfully different this year.

Apparently, a number of parents have reached out to the owner, many of them focusing on the decision to leave NCA off the schedule. Instead of reaching out to the parents individually, the owner sent out an email to the parents as a group. Interestingly, costs to the gym weren't mentioned as a factor, but they did mention hotel costs for the require 3-night block, which I acknowledge might be a factor for some families.

At the end of the day, I'm willing to hear him out, but I really would have expected some discussion of these changes before they collected fees for the season.

 

[quitthedrama]

Speaking as a gym that has all-inclusive pricing - one of our biggest challenges is dealing with the rapidly increasing event prices. Our customers haven't been exposed to event prices as much as those under a different pricing model. As a percentage, event costs have gone up FAR faster than tuition has increased, making it a bigger portion of expenses every season and driving margins down significantly. This is particularly true for the Varsity/Summit bid events. We have been torn trying to decide between huge raises in tuition and making changes to the competition schedule.

This isn't a criticism (sometimes I'm blunt especially in text so I wanted to make the disclaimer). I'm curious as to why you don't communicate to your customers the fact that your increased costs are due to the increase in Varsity owned EP fees? I have always felt that the price I pay to my daughter's gym for THEIR services is more than fair, and I think most of my friends at various gyms feel the same, but there are many who have left the industry because of costs (and many others who are barely hanging on and counting the days until we write our last check). In my opinion this is a huge factor across the board, and obviously affects the program owners, so why don't they communicate this to their customers and come together to make changes? Parents alone have very little say and when one or two say something or leave there is practically no impact, but parents and gym owners together as a large group could make a huge impact. I see that even your gym advertising for open positions on teams - if you can't fill teams in August, then I imagine there are many gyms feeling the pain. Do you worry that enough of your customers will be priced out of the industry to impact your ability to operate as a business at any of your locations?

 

[cheermomforever]

Speaking as a gym that has all-inclusive pricing - one of our biggest challenges is dealing with the rapidly increasing event prices. Our customers haven't been exposed to event prices as much as those under a different pricing model. As a percentage, event costs have gone up FAR faster than tuition has increased, making it a bigger portion of expenses every season and driving margins down significantly. This is particularly true for the Varsity/Summit bid events. We have been torn trying to decide between huge raises in tuition and making changes to the competition schedule.

Like most big decisions in our business, ultimately we try to keep a balance between varying customer opinions. Some want a dizzying array of team gifts, some don't want to mess with those at all. Some want to compete more, some less. Some are willing to keep paying higher and higher fees to go to 2-day events, some want costs lower. Some complain about not having the latest and greatest uniforms, some want less expensive options. Some parents want to go the the biggest events, others want to strategically find the easiest/surest path to Summit bids. As a gym, no matter where you choose to land on those spectrums, there will be a sizeable number of customers upset with some of your decisions.

I would strongly suggest you speak to your gym owner/director if you have concerns. Complaining about it online (or just to other parents) doesn't typically help the situation much.

I agree on not being able to make everyone happy! Not everyone fundraises in our gym because they don't need to, but those who do really push it because they NEED to. We are doing UCA this year versus Dallas because its compares pretty well, with NCA comp fees so high and STP. The hopper and being able to rent a house where we choose to and cook our own meals, is about the same cost versus Dallas. Cheer costs are making some parents say "sorry Cant afford it" or "do HS instead".

 

[BlueCat]

This isn't a criticism (sometimes I'm blunt especially in text so I wanted to make the disclaimer). I'm curious as to why you don't communicate to your customers the fact that your increased costs are due to the increase in Varsity owned EP fees? I have always felt that the price I pay to my daughter's gym for THEIR services is more than fair, and I think most of my friends at various gyms feel the same, but there are many who have left the industry because of costs (and many others who are barely hanging on and counting the days until we write our last check). In my opinion this is a huge factor across the board, and obviously affects the program owners, so why don't they communicate this to their customers and come together to make changes? Parents alone have very little say and when one or two say something or leave there is practically no impact, but parents and gym owners together as a large group could make a huge impact. I see that even your gym advertising for open positions on teams - if you can't fill teams in August, then I imagine there are many gyms feeling the pain. Do you worry that enough of your customers will be priced out of the industry to impact your ability to operate as a business at any of your locations?

We have had (and continue to have) surveys and focus groups with parents and athletes on many of those things. We also have lengthy discussions with EPs and others regarding pricing. It is tough to balance how much discussion/debate about our internal expenses to have with the customers. Pricing, team selection, and event schedule have an incredible amount of grey area and moving parts. It is hard to break down the intricacies into a single soundbite, paragraph, or even speech to parents.

 

[CheerBank]

Actually, it's worse than that (although I'll concede that it's not entirely apples-to-apples because our team is a Y3 and they only had a J3 last year). This year, our Y3 has two 2-day competitions vs. the five 2-day competitions the J3 team had last year. And the fees have gone up modestly, with no mention that the competition schedule would be meaningfully different this year.

Apparently, a number of parents have reached out to the owner, many of them focusing on the decision to leave NCA off the schedule. Instead of reaching out to the parents individually, the owner sent out an email to the parents as a group. Interestingly, costs to the gym weren't mentioned as a factor, but they did mention hotel costs for the require 3-night block, which I acknowledge might be a factor for some families.

At the end of the day, I'm willing to hear him out, but I really would have expected some discussion of these changes before they collected fees for the season.

Is it possible your owners are choosing competitions where your Youth 3 actually has other teams to compete against? There are many more J3 teams as opposed to Y3 teams, and that may be a deciding factor in competition selection in addition to other reasons such as 3 days of STP.