Well Now What Are We Are We Supposed To Talk About.

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by Sterling von Shimmer, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    If say, we had a new cricket team and an organization based in India wanted to bring an American team over to compete at their championships (I don't know enough about that sport to know how their "World Championship" works, so forgive me if I get details wrong) I would ask for, and even expect that organization to chip in and assist with travel costs. I could even see setting up extra games for us to play - maybe create an extra exhibition round or extra friendly matches before or after the main event. If there was a huge company that made a ton of money selling cricket equipment/uniforms behind the scenes that wanted cricket to grow in the US to help their global footprint, I would expect them to be paying for most of the cost of all of it.

    I wouldn't expect them to overhaul their scoring system to help make up for differences in our experience level. I also wouldn't expect to get moved into the final match at the actual championship over teams that were markedly better than ours.

     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  2. Lisa Seye

    Lisa Seye I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    They did not have an alternate and the injured person was integral to the routine. I suppose they could have marked her spots and not had things go up. They had to rework the routine for the next day. All hearsay ;)
     
  3. CookieMomster

    CookieMomster Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Easy solution...then don’t call it Worlds! Call it something else. For a world event to be truly a Worlds level event it needs representation from around the world. Otherwise it’s just a glorified National championship.
     
  4. Cheeranswers

    Cheeranswers Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    but they’re still representation of all countries, just not when it comes to finals. Other countries are definitely getting there, I just don’t see why they should get a crutch.

    I think of it like World Cup of soccer. Canada isn’t good. It’s like them implementing a rule so that Canada has to qualify. We aren’t at their level yet, and that’s okay.
     
  5. Emily

    Emily International Cheer Correspondent Staff Member National Champion

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    Honestly, I'm completely fed up with still having to discuss the 3-per-country rule.

    Everyone is comparing cheerleading to all these other sports that don't have a similar rule but then forget to see the other differences to our "world" championship. I'd say: as soon as we have a world championship that has a different host country each time we can talk about all of the other rules. I think a lot of people from the US grossly underestimate how much of an advantage it is to compete in a somewhat familiar environment with more than 5 people in the audience to cheer you on during the routine.

    Yes, right now it isn't "the best of the best" in the international finals, but if you care so much about it just switch to global which gives you the "best of the best" and then just don't care about the international divisions anymore.
     
  6. XtremeWpg

    XtremeWpg I have my own cheer message board

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    Exactly

    And, the more I watch the more I realize that the senior divisions are essentially an American nationals. Those divisions have such a small amount of international participation, for whatever reason. Look at senior large coed. Only American teams. In prelims and finals. So, did you win a “world” championship or a “national” championship.

    I’m not trying to take anything Way from the kids in the senior division, but I have always found it difficult to consider some of these teams “world” anything.

    For everyone complaining about the 3 per country rule, there’s now divisions available for the open division teams to go into where that doesn’t happen and a choice can be made about where you want to compete.

    I’m tired of the primarily American attitude about the 3 per country rule because it excludes some awesome teams. Well, now those teams have their chance by competing in Senior Open.

    I can feel myself getting saltier and saltier about this argument, especially now that there is a viable and reasonable alternative for teams who want to avoid 3 per country.
     
  7. XtremeWpg

    XtremeWpg I have my own cheer message board

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    There is unequivocally a disadvantage for international teams. Socioeconomic, qualified coaches, suitable training facilities. All of these are disadvantages that can and do exist in a lot of countries.
     
  8. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer I Fierce Board instead of work/study

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    Couldn’t you make the argument that a lot of these same disadvantages exist for US gyms as well?
     
  9. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    If we can get rid of the 1,000 "national championships" while we are at it. and just have "NCA", "USASF", "CHEERSPORT", "MAJORS" champions - I am totally down for that. That aligns more with the reality of the situations anyway - like major events in several sports.
     
  10. XtremeWpg

    XtremeWpg I have my own cheer message board

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    Access to coaches and coach training in America is dramatically higher than in a lot countries. Access to gyms is higher. Look how saturated the markets are. People frequently chose to drive hours to a certain gym, but the vast majority of participants have a gym very close to them.

    Travel within America is cheap. I know people there think it isn’t, but it is. For us, to travel to a competition where our senior 2 had more than 1 team to compete against is a minimum 8 hour drive, to compete to qualify for a Worlds bid is the same distance. A flight from where I am to nationals is almost $700. Then there’s an 90 minute drive. Which is exactly why we don’t go, because the trip for the weekend costs close to $2500.

    America views cheer generally as a sport and it receives support from schools and gyms.

    Other places aren’t so lucky because they’re behind because cheer is so new.
     
  11. CookieMomster

    CookieMomster Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    That’s still not an accurate example. Let’s compare apples to apples. Soccer still only has one country per team and cheer has tons of teams. If that’s the case then only one team per country should advance and a round robin of competitions should be held.

    I highly doubt the US teams would be as dominate if they had to raise the money and head overseas to compete. Having Worlds rotate countries might actually level the field then.

    Nobody is saying all of the divisions need the 3 country rule but there’s no selling feature for int’l teams to spend upward of $50k+ for a 1-day 2.5min routine showcase. Don’t like it, move to open. To have a int’l division requires int’l representation.

    Everybody keeps saying this doesn’t happen in other sports and yet it does. No other sport is scored like cheer. Don’t think of it as a crutch, think of it as a handicap and that’s a common practice in sports
     
  12. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    I don't think anyone is getting their mind changed on the only-3-per-country rule. We see it as taking opportunity away from our athletes, others see it as adding opportunities for their athletes. If our roles were switched, perhaps our views would change.
     
  13. XtremeWpg

    XtremeWpg I have my own cheer message board

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    I don’t want anyone to change their mind. And you are very open to discussion about the hows and whys about what happens.

    There are many people who are close minded on this topic.
     
  14. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    I think "our" side would pretty much shut up about it if it were "Top 10 scores AND top 3 per country". We don't want to exclude other countries or limit opportunities, we just don't want to have the 4th or 5th highest score out of 50 teams, not advance, and not get the opportunity to say they were top 10 in the World.
     
  15. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer I Fierce Board instead of work/study

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    I feel like if we keep pulling at this thread though, it’s only going to make cheer more convoluted.

    Take UCA HS Nationals. The same arguments could be applied: the level of talent varies by each state, as does the cost of travel. Texas is more of a powerhouse cheer state than Montana. Teams living in Florida will pay less for travel than teams in California. But they don’t take three teams per state to finals so everything is “fair.” Each team assesses their talent, the cost, and makes a decision as to whether it’s worth it to go to the comp. Lots of teams just accept they’ll probably only perform once and then go home and that’s just how it is.

    I know it’s not exactly the same, but it is a microcosm of the situation.