What are the top 3 topics in cheerleading?

Discussion in 'Discussing the Cheerleading Industry' started by King, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. hiyoe6

    hiyoe6 They call me Susie

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    Level 1 could judge : locals, small amount of teams, high school gyms, etc., mostly lvl 1s and 2s, no IALC or US Finals bids
    Level 2 could judge : regionals (IALC and US Finals bids)
    Level 3 could judge : one day "nationals" / 2 day - non-bid awarding nationals
    Level 4 could judge : bid-awarding Nationals
    Level 5 could judge : Worlds

     
  2. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    How about we start with shining a bright light on the scoring process. All scores are available for all to see.

    I have discovered SO many mistakes on our own score sheets over the years that I simply don't have 100% trust in a closed, secretive process. You would be shocked at how many addition mistakes, scoring out of range, etc. we have seen over the years. When you never get see anyone else's scores, how are you supposed to have any confidence that mistakes weren't being made on other sheets?

    TRUE STORY: After day 1 results were announced at a BIG nationals, I got really, really angry at the scoring at a competition. I "very strongly" asked to see the scores from the other teams. The event producer refused. I then very strongly asked him to explain the results. He gave the generic event producer answer-without-an-answer. I then asked if he would personally review them (in another room) and just tell me if he agreed with the ranking. After rolling his eyes, he wandered off to the judges room. A few minutes later, he came out and sheepishly explained that they had accidentally called out the results IN THE OPPOSITE ORDER. They gave the lowest scoring team 1st, all the way down to the highest scoring team Last. Computer glitch. OOPS! If I hadn't been adamant, our team not only would not have gone on to win (a VERY big name) Nationals, they wouldn't have even been in finals. (This was a long time ago, BTW)

    Event producer's reluctance to show scores makes me VERY wary of their judging processes.

    (stepping down)
     
  3. ACEDAD

    ACEDAD Named "Best Veteran" meaning "Most Attractive". National Champion

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  4. KB_Legend

    KB_Legend Jedi Cheerleading Master

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    Are there any other sports in which the scores are not made public?? Or that the categorical scores are not made public???
     
  5. scflips

    scflips Cheer Stalker

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    Do you mean a breakdown of scores or final score? Ex. Gymnastics will give you the final score of each athlete but will not release where the athlete got deducted. So as for releasing Team A. scored 9.5 on Jumps and Team B scored 9.1 I'm not too sure of how that will fly.
     
  6. cheer8

    cheer8 I text ACEDAD all the time

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    me toooooo!
     
  7. KB_Legend

    KB_Legend Jedi Cheerleading Master

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    But in gymnastics you get your A score (difficulty) and your B score (execution) for each aparatus and everyone gets to know those... So maybe you don't get to know EXACTLY where you were deducted on your B score but you know a lot more than we get to know in cheerleading, and if you're good you can probably fill in the gaps using the information given
     
  8. scflips

    scflips Cheer Stalker

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    Good point KB
     
  9. CDRCoach17

    CDRCoach17 They call me Susie

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    Making the scores/scoresheets public is a great idea. I don't see it ever happening. It would clean up the sport, but then all of the sneaky under the table mess will be exposed. Example: Gym A uses the amount of teams they will bring to your event as an advantage. We all know that this goes on.
     
  10. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    I don't really see a real point beyond just being the cheer version of getting a black belt in martial arts
     
  11. Rudags

    Rudags Two Time Defending Champion, Board Comedian

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    I really would like scores to be released for all to see. I agree that it should eliminate the politics that CAN BE used in our sport. It also will maybe let true colors shine on compannies who have reputable judges. It should also make competition companies really do research and train their judges as well as let coaches know why they lost and compared to other teams, what need to be improved on.
     
  12. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    It's like anything where there isn't transparency or even knowledge of what's going on, rumors will fly.
     
  13. tumbleyoda

    tumbleyoda Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Great posts by everybody.

    1.) Judging training/certification and separation. Training is central to making this work. Judges need to know the rules, practice judge, and be reviewed several times before they hit the floor to judge an event. certifying by levels is great - excatly what we did in gymnastics. I could judge Levels V, IV, and III C/O in the old system but not Level 1 or 2, even though I knew the rules and the deductions because I was not certified for it. The only thing that would of gotten me certifed was time judging and then eventual testing. IMO that the judges should not be connected to the competition companies. That the competition company should request judges for their event. The Certified Trained and Competant Cheer Judges Association should then assign the judges for that event. As we move closer to a Univeral Score Sheet - which I dont favor but I think it is an eventuality - this spearation of judges from competition companies truly allows the judges to call it based on the rules without fear of damaging their being not assigned to other events.

    2.) Transparency. Every year there is always some behind the scenes something foul happened story at some event. A lot of things we place the blame on the subjective nature of our sport, but I think that is sometimes a cover for some shenanigins. Put the scores out there. Let everyone see them. Stand behind them and the process. If I prepared with the same rubric as someone else and I lost show me how and why. Likewise if I won. Whatever the reuslts I want to walk away believing in them and building off them, not defending that which makes no sense.

    3.) Unified rule enforcement. Period. Every program. Every event. No favortism. If a loophole is discovered then it should automatically be allowed for every program in the country. Dont mess with the event. When the kids hit the floor it must always be the best team that day/that event wins based on the established rules. not the favorite team, the largest team, the program that bought the most $$$$, the program whose owners are good friends with the comp company owner, nothing. Until the rules are enforced across the board those perceptions will remain which ultimately damage the best efforts of many to bring credibility to the sport.
     
  14. foundmyway2SC

    foundmyway2SC Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    don't agree with that because our gym usually doesnt have a junior team but we have youth-aged girls with standing tucks and who are amazing flyers. why not have them on a senior team if they're good enough for it? btw this is only like 2-3 girls we do it with.
     
  15. Evergreen

    Evergreen Guest

    I couldn't agree more. I also feel that the higher your level of judging credential, the higher your pay. For some companies I work for I get paid the same flat rate per day if I'm judging a regional or a national. Often I'll pass on judging the national events simply because the amount of work and travel that I have to put in to those isn't worth the measly check I'm handed at the end of the weekend.