All-Star Will Eps Validate Teams Against The Usasf Athlete Membership System?

[CheerCritic]

I understand and support the USASF Athlete Membership System. Unfortunately, there are some unethical programs who do not compete their athletes properly according to age.

Now that USASF is going to maintain birth dates for all the member athletes, how does that translate to fair competition at the events?

I only ask since I recently received my introductory email to my cp's account. I was asked to provide basic details (address/phone #s/etc) including a copy of the birth certificate. At least in the sections I'm able to view, there's no link to what team(s) my cp will compete on this season. Should the teams be listed/assigned here that they are competing on OR are allowed to be on at the program they're associated with this season?

From my vantage point, I'm not able to connect the dots from providing proof of my cp's age, validating the teams she can compete on AND Event Producers verifying all the teams in the division are in compliance. How is the registered athlete validated for competing based on age? Is it the responsibility of the EP to perform the calculation that validates the athletes are of legal age? Do the EPs have access to the USASF site to validate the eligibility? Since it's a business, will the EPs bother if the ROI is nill?

I'm concerned the the first step in the right direction (USASF athlete's registration) leaves too many opportunities to undermine this endeavor. If people are still able to cheat the system with minimal work, they will. And the people playing by the rules will be disenchanted that the process is not catching the cheaters.​

 

[hopskipandjump]

Here is my concern as a small gym owner, who is a member of USASF and is registering all my athletes (full membership; not free, this week) - this statement I cut and pasted directly from the USASF website:
"Eligible to attend events hosted by USASF Member Event Producers"
So the above statement implies that if you are not a registered athlete, then USASF Member event producers will not let you compete at their events. AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Changing my name to "cynical".

 

[BlueCat]

It is a chicken/egg type of problem.

The EPs don't want to require every athlete be a member until more gyms force all of their athletes to be members.

The gyms won't force every athlete to be a member until it is required by the EPs.

Fair or not, not every gym wants to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars of their customers' money annually "for the good of the industry" when the perception is that there is little to no direct benefit. This is particularly true for some of the larger Worlds gyms that have already supplied USASF with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in net profit to the USASF through their participation in Worlds.

Requiring every gym/athlete from EVERY level and every sized gym would more evenly distribute the burden of supporting the USASF financially. (As it stands, the Level 5 athletes directly or indirectly pay the vast majority of the "cheer tax" that keeps USASF running.) In theory, this would take the burden off of Worlds to generate the entire annual budget for the USASF. This could, in turn, allow Worlds to make some decisions about the event without having the pressure of the bottom line hanging over them as much. (Fewer bids, less expensive, etc.)

 

[tumbleyoda]

@BlueCat - I am asking for an opinion on this. Do you think that the reason USASF wont require membership of all gyms is because they are concerned that there will be a split with a new rival organization to USASF? I am thinking in relative terms of the old USGF (now USAG)and USAIGC split in gymnastics. In years past I know some of the smaller gyms wished there was an alternative to USASF so the only way they could voice their displeasure with USASF was not to become members.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

It is a chicken/egg type of problem.

The EPs don't want to require every athlete be a member until more gyms force all of their athletes to be members.

The gyms won't force every athlete to be a member until it is required by the EPs.

Fair or not, not every gym wants to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars of their customers' money annually "for the good of the industry" when the perception is that there is little to no direct benefit. This is particularly true for some of the larger Worlds gyms that have already supplied USASF with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in net profit to the USASF through their participation in Worlds.

Requiring every gym/athlete from EVERY level and every sized gym would more evenly distribute the burden of supporting the USASF financially. (As it stands, the Level 5 athletes directly or indirectly pay the vast majority of the "cheer tax" that keeps USASF running.) In theory, this would take the burden off of Worlds to generate the entire annual budget for the USASF. This could, in turn, allow Worlds to make some decisions about the event without having the pressure of the bottom line hanging over them as much. (Fewer bids, less expensive, etc.)

There is a free athlete membership that everyone who is on a Non-Worlds team can do though. It shouldn't be an issue to ask parents to go online for a few moments.

 

[VTX]

There is a free athlete membership that everyone who is on a Non-Worlds team can do though. It shouldn't be an issue to ask parents to go online for a few moments.

I've asked this as a post before but didn't obtain a response, does anyone know how to do the free registration when I go to USASF website I can only find the full membership($25).

 

[hopskipandjump]

It is a chicken/egg type of problem.

The EPs don't want to require every athlete be a member until more gyms force all of their athletes to be members.

The gyms won't force every athlete to be a member until it is required by the EPs.

Fair or not, not every gym wants to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars of their customers' money annually "for the good of the industry" when the perception is that there is little to no direct benefit. This is particularly true for some of the larger Worlds gyms that have already supplied USASF with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in net profit to the USASF through their participation in Worlds.

Requiring every gym/athlete from EVERY level and every sized gym would more evenly distribute the burden of supporting the USASF financially. (As it stands, the Level 5 athletes directly or indirectly pay the vast majority of the "cheer tax" that keeps USASF running.) In theory, this would take the burden off of Worlds to generate the entire annual budget for the USASF. This could, in turn, allow Worlds to make some decisions about the event without having the pressure of the bottom line hanging over them as much. (Fewer bids, less expensive, etc.)

I am curious (this is not smart alecky or anything) but can you tell me how level 5 athletes are directly or indirectly paying more of the "cheer tax" as it were? Is this about Worlds? Or is this about ALL of the leveled athletes? I would think that if you are saying the money comes from the athletes who attend Worlds, then I am going to agree with this statement. If you are saying the money from gym membership, then I am going to disagree. If you look at who is a gym member, and who is not, well, then your numbers shift.

 

[BlueCat]

I am curious (this is not smart alecky or anything) but can you tell me how level 5 athletes are directly or indirectly paying more of the "cheer tax" as it were? Is this about Worlds? Or is this about ALL of the leveled athletes? I would think that if you are saying the money comes from the athletes who attend Worlds, then I am going to agree with this statement. If you are saying the money from gym membership, then I am going to disagree. If you look at who is a gym member, and who is not, well, then your numbers shift.

The vast majority of the operating budget of the USASF comes from the net profit from Worlds - the vast majority of which are L5. It would be more accurate to say the athletes competing in Worlds are basically "paying the cheer tax" that keeps the USASF functioning. There are other small sources of income like athlete, gym, and event producer fees, however, those are very minor compared to Worlds.

The gyms/athletes that go to World should certainly pay their share to keep the USASF going. However, I do not think that they should be responsible for as big a percentage of the revenue as they are. Mandatory athlete/gym membership should provide a more "diverse" pool of revenue - this could then, in turn, decrease the need for such high margins from Worlds.

 

[SharkDad]

Here is my concern as a small gym owner, who is a member of USASF and is registering all my athletes (full membership; not free, this week) - this statement I cut and pasted directly from the USASF website:
"Eligible to attend events hosted by USASF Member Event Producers"
So the above statement implies that if you are not a registered athlete, then USASF Member event producers will not let you compete at their events. AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Changing my name to "cynical".

The USASF can make rules like this but can't force EPs to do stuff since they don't run those companies. The best leverage they have is to restrict bid opportunities or other types of Worlds participation.

The chicken/egg analogy is a good one. Gyms won't be members until the USASF does more for them (athlete registration system to prevent cheating, universal scoresheet, better judging certification, sanctions for cheating, etc.). The USASF can't possibly implement everything people are asking for without membership and a better operating budget.

I think the sport needs to all suck it up and make membership mandatory for everyone and then put the ball in the USASF's court. The USASF would have to finally file for non-profit status, get their own offices and then produce what the sport needs otherwise people will finally lost faith.

From the people I know who are working hard to make this sport better, I am confident this could happen. The sport as a whole needs to stop dragging it's feet.

 

[tumbleyoda]

The vast majority of the operating budget of the USASF comes from the net profit from Worlds - the vast majority of which are L5. It would be more accurate to say the athletes competing in Worlds are basically "paying the cheer tax" that keeps the USASF functioning. There are other small sources of income like athlete, gym, and event producer fees, however, those are very minor compared to Worlds.

The gyms/athletes that go to World should certainly pay their share to keep the USASF going. However, I do not think that they should be responsible for as big a percentage of the revenue as they are. Mandatory athlete/gym membership should provide a more "diverse" pool of revenue - this could then, in turn, decrease the need for such high margins from Worlds.

Which should explain "again" to those who keep saying there are too many teams at Worlds and to eliminate bids why on the business side of the equation it is not likely to happen. Until they can replace that revenue that they would lose by eliminating bids and the money that those teams, parents and fans generate by attending Worlds.

 

[BlueCat]

The USASF can make rules like this but can't force EPs to do stuff since they don't run those companies. The best leverage they have is to restrict bid opportunities or other types of Worlds participation.

The chicken/egg analogy is a good one. Gyms won't be members until the USASF does more for them (athlete registration system to prevent cheating, universal scoresheet, better judging certification, sanctions for cheating, etc.). The USASF can't possibly implement everything people are asking for without membership and a better operating budget.

I think the sport needs to all suck it up and make membership mandatory for everyone and then put the ball in the USASF's court. The USASF would have to finally file for non-profit status, get their own offices and then produce what the sport needs otherwise people will finally lost faith.

From the people I know who are working hard to make this sport better, I am confident this could happen. The sport as a whole needs to stop dragging it's feet.

I agree in principle. However, there is always danger in giving a bureaucracy more power and influence. I genuinely like, respect, and trust the vast majority of the "powers that be" within the USASF. However, it is far from perfect. Giving it more money, influence, and authority would likely primarily lead to positive things, particularly in the near future. However, sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.

 

[hopskipandjump]

very thoughtful responses....
Blue Cat: it would really help if money dependency for USASF didn't fall mainly on Worlds' athletes because there is always such an outcry that USASF is just about Worlds. (again, your egg/chicken problem)
Shark Dad: TOTALLY on board with everyone becoming a member. I have children who swam, played tennis and field hockey and they all had to join the sports official governing body.
TumbleYoda: I don't think we had too many bids in my humble opinion. I watched every team in the Milk House on Saturday from start to finish and I was very impressed with the talent. Are some teams better than others? Yes, of course but it seemed like everyone fit pretty nicely.

 

[Future]

very thoughtful responses....
Blue Cat: it would really help if money dependency for USASF didn't fall mainly on Worlds' athletes because there is always such an outcry that USASF is just about Worlds. (again, your egg/chicken problem)
Shark Dad: TOTALLY on board with everyone becoming a member. I have children who swam, played tennis and field hockey and they all had to join the sports official governing body.
TumbleYoda: I don't think we had too many bids in my humble opinion. I watched every team in the Milk House on Saturday from start to finish and I was very impressed with the talent. Are some teams better than others? Yes, of course but it seemed like everyone fit pretty nicely.

Your children joined a true non-profit if they were tennis players, swimmers and field hockey players. Unfortunately, USASF, USA Cheer nor any other Varsity influenced organization is not. The papers shown on the USASF website along with the financials are from a 501 (c ) 6 trade organization….they were formed specifically to better the trade businesses of the groups on the board…they are not formed to better the sport. It is about the profit circle that needs to be maintained….at any cost. It is unfortunate that USASF is not a correct IRS entity to service the athletes needs….membership into a governing body would perfect for the protection of the athletes in many ways….but not to be if it is not a required 501 (c )3. Membership for the right reasons….won't happen.

 

[tumbleyoda]

very thoughtful responses....
Blue Cat: it would really help if money dependency for USASF didn't fall mainly on Worlds' athletes because there is always such an outcry that USASF is just about Worlds. (again, your egg/chicken problem)
Shark Dad: TOTALLY on board with everyone becoming a member. I have children who swam, played tennis and field hockey and they all had to join the sports official governing body.
TumbleYoda: I don't think we had too many bids in my humble opinion. I watched every team in the Milk House on Saturday from start to finish and I was very impressed with the talent. Are some teams better than others? Yes, of course but it seemed like everyone fit pretty nicely.

The issue is that every year there are numerous outcries from so many that there are too many teams at Worlds, too many at large bids given out, teams that don't deserve to go, etc. I have already explained my position on this many times on every version of these boards since ProX. Mine is pretty close to yours. It is the system that is messed up but to fix it would cost USASF and EP's money that they dont want to lose.

The point that Bluecat brought up and I spoke to is that the current business model demands the large numbers of teams there because in his opinion/knowledge Worlds is a major revenue stream for USASF. If they cut the amount of bids, USASF loses money. Until USASF has another source of guaranteed revenue those crying for limiting bids are spitting in the proverbial wind. USASF is saying with Worlds business first, competition second while many on the boards are saying competition first, business second.

 

[BlueCat]

Your children joined a true non-profit if they were tennis players, swimmers and field hockey players. Unfortunately, USASF, USA Cheer nor any other Varsity influenced organization is not. The papers shown on the USASF website along with the financials are from a 501 (c ) 6 trade organization….they were formed specifically to better the trade businesses of the groups on the board…they are not formed to better the sport. It is about the profit circle that needs to be maintained….at any cost. It is unfortunate that USASF is not a correct IRS entity to service the athletes needs….membership into a governing body would perfect for the protection of the athletes in many ways….but not to be if it is not a required 501 (c )3. Membership for the right reasons….won't happen.

You can quite literally be a Satanic cult and receive 501 (c) 3 status. Having that particular number on your tax form is not the end-all-be-all measuring stick of a group's "goodness".

Example: http://www.cultofcthulhu.net/