Worlds Xsmall Division Question

[Wendy Trekster]

So, newbie here but don't have the patience to wait for my training wheels to come off.

I did a search and found all the info on xsmall in other threads. I absolutely understand the xsmall divisions and the stipulations, so no worries there. And I understand large programs hedging their bets and fielding xsmall along with teams in other divisions, knowing the xsmall would have to go to small at worlds if they have multiple bids.

And my CP is NOT a level 5 athlete so I don't have skin in the game, I'm just curious on the following scenario.

Now that the season is underway, we have some programs with xsmall teams, that due to their other worlds eligible teams accepting bids, they will not be able to compete as xsmall at Worlds.

Question - Will the xsmall team (either with/without a bid) still be permitted to compete during the season in the xsmall division or will they be moved to small? Or is this one of those 'discretion of the event producer' things?

Personal opinion: If they are no longer able to accept a bid, they should not be permitted to compete in xsmall.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

My understanding is that they'll be able to compete XS until Worlds. The stipulation is ONLY for Worlds, so they'll be placed in their appropriate division the rest of the year, which is determined by team size, not bid eligibility.

I guess we'll see for sure next time CJA competes, because Bombshells are XS and Team Gunz also received a bid last weekend (I think).

ETA: This is my assumption, but of course, Varsity and other EP's have been known to do the complete opposite of what we assume.

 

[FamousxMindset]

Did USASF just not realize that non XS small teams are allowed to compete into the XS division up until worlds? I hope so because I can't imagine a good logical reason to permit this. Sounds like it could be easy for a team under 14 from a mega gym just to compete and secure a full paid bid.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

The actual getting of the bid is not the issue - Worlds bids are often awarded solely on their final score, across all divisions. So the odds of getting the bid really doesn't change.

It's more of a 'spirit of intent' thing - there are likely programs with only xsmall teams that may not make it to worlds and winning a competition may be the best that they can do this season.

I would like to think that the programs this situation applies to would gracefully compete as small the remainder of the season.

 

[FamousxMindset]

The actual getting of the bid is not the issue - Worlds bids are often awarded solely on their final score, across all divisions. So the odds of getting the bid really doesn't change.

It's more of a 'spirit of intent' thing - there are likely programs with only xsmall teams that may not make it to worlds and winning a competition may be the best that they can do this season.

I would like to think that the programs this situation applies to would gracefully compete as small the remainder of the season.

It shouldn't affect the odds but it is not impossible especially when scoring is naturally comparative. A 'true' XS may throw 8 trick passes throw full a mega gym XS may throw 10 combo passes with majority ending in a double they are going to be comparatively rewarded for that.

 

[cheerios27]

Did USASF just not realize that non XS small teams are allowed to compete into the XS division up until worlds? I hope so because I can't imagine a good logical reason to permit this. Sounds like it could be easy for a team under 14 from a mega gym just to compete and secure a full paid bid.

My feelings on it:
USASF and Varsity did not work on this together nor think it through. To me, this is their compromise to having a D2 Worlds division (which would solve this whole problem). I 100% support having a division that is for small gyms but until it is called that, D2, that is not what XS is. It is just a division with 14 or less athletes. Will a lot of small gyms compete in that division, yes, but it does not make anything wrong with a non small gym competing in it. And if you remember the role out, XS was originally just a division offered throughout the season but not a World's division, hence no restriction on if you had more than one Worlds team could you compete in it. Then they revised it to allow them at Worlds with the "2 or more Worlds teams" restriction. What didn't follow that was a clarification that this "2 worlds team rule" should or would be followed at Varsity events. So what is left is XS division at Varsity events is open to anyone, and Worlds it is a different set of rules. I do not see any advantage of being XS knowing you are going into small senior or small coed with 14 at Worlds. At a regular season event do EP's at allow you to choose what size division you are competing in? Like if you have 20 athletes are you allowed to choose to compete in large instead? I am under the impression you compete in the division based on your number of athletes and if that is the case, CJA and any other team are just following the rules set forth when they introduced this division. Varsity and USASF must get on the same page and either a. completely ban gyms with more than one worlds team from entering the division b. allow all gyms into XS regardless of how many teams you have or c. declare XS D2 at Worlds. This current set up just seems to be creating more problems than solutions.

CJA seems to be the only team mentioned in this discussion, but Maryland Twisters also had a team at the same competition, in XS, while having 2 other Worlds teams compete. There are also several other gyms with xs teams along with other worlds team. I feel terrible for the athletes and the gyms knowing how much everyone is questioning their right to compete following the rules because the rules are not clearly explained.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Personal opinion aside, they will still be placed in xmall after they obtain a bid as that is the

My feelings on it:
USASF and Varsity did not work on this together nor think it through. To me, this is their compromise to having a D2 Worlds division (which would solve this whole problem). I 100% support having a division that is for small gyms but until it is called that, D2, that is not what XS is. It is just a division with 14 or less athletes. Will a lot of small gyms compete in that division, yes, but it does not make anything wrong with a non small gym competing in it. And if you remember the role out, XS was originally just a division offered throughout the season but not a World's division, hence no restriction on if you had more than one Worlds team could you compete in it. Then they revised it to allow them at Worlds with the "2 or more Worlds teams" restriction. What didn't follow that was a clarification that this "2 worlds team rule" should or would be followed at Varsity events. So what is left is XS division at Varsity events is open to anyone, and Worlds it is a different set of rules. I do not see any advantage of being XS knowing you are going into small senior or small coed with 14 at Worlds. At a regular season event do EP's at allow you to choose what size division you are competing in? Like if you have 20 athletes are you allowed to choose to compete in large instead? I am under the impression you compete in the division based on your number of athletes and if that is the case, CJA and any other team are just following the rules set forth when they introduced this division. Varsity and USASF must get on the same page and either a. completely ban gyms with more than one worlds team from entering the division b. allow all gyms into XS regardless of how many teams you have or c. declare XS D2 at Worlds. This current set up just seems to be creating more problems than solutions.

CJA seems to be the only team mentioned in this discussion, but Maryland Twisters also had a team at the same competition, in XS, while having 2 other Worlds teams compete. There are also several other gyms with xs teams along with other worlds team. I feel terrible for the athletes and the gyms knowing how much everyone is questioning their right to compete following the rules because the rules are not clearly explained.

I think CJA is being mentioned more because they got bids whereas MT did not in XS. So at this point, they're the only one this situation has affected. Do you happen to know what other gyms have an XS as well as other Worlds teams? The only other one I can think of is Tribe, though I don't know if their level 6 is going for a bid. I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of right now.

 

[cheerios27]

Personal opinion aside, they will still be placed in xmall after they obtain a bid as that is the

I think CJA is being mentioned more because they got bids whereas MT did not in XS. So at this point, they're the only one this situation has affected. Do you happen to know what other gyms have an XS as well as other Worlds teams? The only other one I can think of is Tribe, though I don't know if their level 6 is going for a bid. I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of right now.

Tribe was the other one I was thinking of along with cja and twisters. I guess someone has to be first I just feel bad for them.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Tribe was the other one I was thinking of along with cja and twisters. I guess someone has to be first I just feel bad for them.

Agreed, it's not their fault they are just going by the rules.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

As a parent, I don't know how I'd feel about our team 'gaming' the system.
These programs are good programs and they form great teams, it's no surprise that they'll fall under the xsmall rule. And it makes it surprising that they actually are doing it, they have enough athletes to compose solid small teams.

I would just hope that even though the rule allows it, they compete as small so they have a true feel of how they are comparing going into Worlds.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

ugh - that's right, the Varsity event size rules won't allow them to gracefully bow out of xsmall and compete as small.

They really did create quite a conundrum with this one.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

As a parent, I don't know how I'd feel about our team 'gaming' the system.
These programs are good programs and they form great teams, it's no surprise that they'll fall under the xsmall rule. And it makes it surprising that they actually are doing it, they have enough athletes to compose solid small teams.

I would just hope that even though the rule allows it, they compete as small so they have a true feel of how they are comparing going into Worlds.

They're not gaming the system. They're literally placed into the XS division because of the number of athletes on their team.

 

[CLynn]

As a parent, I don't know how I'd feel about our team 'gaming' the system.
These programs are good programs and they form great teams, it's no surprise that they'll fall under the xsmall rule. And it makes it surprising that they actually are doing it, they have enough athletes to compose solid small teams.

They are following the rules...by this logic why stop at small when they probably have enough athletes to compose solid medium or large teams?

 

[Wendy Trekster]

My point being, if there are programs that have multiple worlds teams, the athletes that end up on the xsmall team may be getting disserviced.

I understand the gyms are playing the odds and sticking with the rules, but when you're creating teams knowing that there is the potential to be competing at Worlds as a small with only 14 athletes, it may put them at a disadvantage.

It is my opinion that they are doing the industry and the athletes a disservice. And I do understand that this whole thing played out much differently than everyone expected and hindsight is 20/20. But before the teams compete for Worlds Bids, how far in advance do they have to 'declare' what division the team will be competing as? Not being knowledgeable on the process, I would imagine the last opportunity would be team registration at the first Bid eligible competition they attend.

And I know how the scoring goes and a quality xsmall should be very competitive in small, so it might not be that much of a disadvantage, but it seems like a kind of backward way to knowingly do it.

 

[luv2cheer92]

My point being, if there are programs that have multiple worlds teams, the athletes that end up on the xsmall team may be getting disserviced.

I understand the gyms are playing the odds and sticking with the rules, but when you're creating teams knowing that there is the potential to be competing at Worlds as a small with only 14 athletes, it may put them at a disadvantage.

It is my opinion that they are doing the industry and the athletes a disservice. And I do understand that this whole thing played out much differently than everyone expected and hindsight is 20/20. But before the teams compete for Worlds Bids, how far in advance do they have to 'declare' what division the team will be competing as? Not being knowledgeable on the process, I would imagine the last opportunity would be team registration at the first Bid eligible competition they attend.

And I know how the scoring goes and a quality xsmall should be very competitive in small, so it might not be that much of a disadvantage, but it seems like a kind of backward way to knowingly do it.

A team can change divisions throughout the season, they don't "declare" a division at the beginning of the season. They submit a roster for each individual comp that has the total number of athletes and number of males if applicable and they are placed in a division for that specific comp based on that info. And that division can even change up to the day of the comp if something changes with the roster or number of athletes.