All-Star Would You Send Your Child To A Gym Where The Head Coach Had No Personal Cheer Experience?

[njallday]

I was just becoming more knowledgeable and wanted to ask someone else because it seems the same 5 people on this board always chime in with their expertise and opinions and I wanted to know if someone on the other end would ever reply, and someone finally did.

1. I get paid a very small amount (relatively) to spot tumbling. Credentialing for me would cost over a months pay for something I enjoy doing as a passion type project.

2. I achieve success and am very sought after in my area. Dozens of athletes only want me, and the high schools who have had me spot their high school teams, approached me based on my high customer satisfaction.

3. Certification is not required, and I know of no other instructors in my area with it.

4. I have taken additional steps (I.E. insurance and fingerprint/background check) which is WAY above and beyond what I have to do anyway.

I am trying to be objective and "you should get credentialed, because everyone is credentialed" is circular logic that I don't see the benefit of, as is "it'll make you a safer spotter" really? How? What unique skills will certification help me with? Where does the money to certify go? Only the instructor? USASF? Towards the expenses of maintaining the certification program? No one is really providing me with the information I'm seeking, so you bet I'll bring it up if someone mentions that they'll only let their child be taught by someone who is credentialed. What benefits are there for a credentialed instructor vs. an uncredentialed instructor all other things being equal.

I'm also not doing this to be disrespectful. I just want a concrete, surefire reason that I should go get credentialed except "it will teach you to be a good instructor" because in my opinion I have already achieved that.

Again, like I said upthread, I am not trying to be discouraging and mean.

While I never plan on coaching, I actually understand your viewpoint more than you think. I have student loans up the wazoo to be a doctor of chiropractic. With that degree I am trained, licensed, and 100% fully capable of treating pregnant women and children. And yet, I've paid a few extra thousand dollars (that I really don't have) and given another 400 hours to get extra certification for maternity and pediatric patients. Why? Because the type of patient I want to attract to my office is looking for those certifications. They trust me with their children because they know I've gone above and beyond to learn everything I can to help them and keep them safe.

USASF coach credentialing is the same. The parents who know you may love you, but if I am a cheer parent looking for a new gym, I don't know the coaches personally. I only have a checklist with "Credentialed Coaches" listed right up top. I will cross your gym off the list for that reason alone without stepping foot inside. I am sure that frustrates you and may make you a little angry... but then maybe working with children in this capacity isn't for you. It's about the kids' safety. Plain and simple. Freak accidents happen, and kids get hurt under the watchful eye of the best coaches in the industry. But, if my kid gets hurt on your watch, I am going to wonder if it's because you never went through that training, making me a heck of a lot more likely to sue.

 

[cheer25mom]

I'm upgraded to an engineering graduate. I know all to well about staying ahead of the curve. Is it the same way in cheering? If I go get credentialed, is there new technology and equipment or spotting techniques that they'll teach us?

Our coaches, many of whom have 10 or more years experience and all of whom are certified, go to training about 4 times a year and always come back with something new to apply in the gym. Believe it or not, there is constant research going on into training techniques and injury prevention. Even seasoned veterans can get something out of it.


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[BlockHead]

I am curious...wouldn't it be in a gym's best interest to pay for USASF certification for each coach? I would think that they would want the best that they could offer and one way would be to advertise that all of their coaches were certified.

For my job, my employer pays for my license for whatever state I am currently working. I just figured that this was the same way for cheer.

 

[Michael White]

I am curious...wouldn't it be in a gym's best interest to pay for USASF certification for each coach? I would think that they would want the best that they could offer and one way would be to advertise that all of their coaches were certified.

For my job, my employer pays for my license for whatever state I am currently working. I just figured that this was the same way for cheer.

When certification costs between $200 and $600 for one instructor, not even considering the travel expense/ hotel room if the instructor were to travel (which I would have to), I can understand why small gyms wouldn't want to be on the hook for the cost.

 

[Michael White]

Again, like I said upthread, I am not trying to be discouraging and mean.

While I never plan on coaching, I actually understand your viewpoint more than you think. I have student loans up the wazoo to be a doctor of chiropractic. With that degree I am trained, licensed, and 100% fully capable of treating pregnant women and children. And yet, I've paid a few extra thousand dollars (that I really don't have) and given another 400 hours to get extra certification for maternity and pediatric patients. Why? Because the type of patient I want to attract to my office is looking for those certifications. They trust me with their children because they know I've gone above and beyond to learn everything I can to help them and keep them safe.

USASF coach credentialing is the same. The parents who know you may love you, but if I am a cheer parent looking for a new gym, I don't know the coaches personally. I only have a checklist with "Credentialed Coaches" listed right up top. I will cross your gym off the list for that reason alone without stepping foot inside. I am sure that frustrates you and may make you a little angry... but then maybe working with children in this capacity isn't for you. It's about the kids' safety. Plain and simple. Freak accidents happen, and kids get hurt under the watchful eye of the best coaches in the industry. But, if my kid gets hurt on your watch, I am going to wonder if it's because you never went through that training, making me a heck of a lot more likely to sue.

That sounds like my exact situation, except where I am, people don't look for certification. If the certification was only suggested, and you already had many happy customers, and you got a lot more through word of mouth, would you spend the extra money on a certification? I can understand if it is vital, or teaches methods that are becoming industry standards. Whenever I try to look up the specifics of certification for cheer, I'm a little underwhelmed, the written portion (which I have done) is 10 questions per level. 10. That's apparently how sophisticated an entire level in cheer is.

 

[cupieqt]

I am curious...wouldn't it be in a gym's best interest to pay for USASF certification for each coach? I would think that they would want the best that they could offer and one way would be to advertise that all of their coaches were certified.

For my job, my employer pays for my license for whatever state I am currently working. I just figured that this was the same way for cheer.

Most gyms don't want to pay for it because it's costly and the certification belongs to the instructor not the gym. But some will pay half or reimburse you if you've been there for a certain length of time after getting it.

@Michael White Certification is only necessary as a CYA insurance policy. Get it so if you're ever taken to court you can protect yourself from losing all of your assets. And yes, no one cares if you have it until someone gets hurt on your watch and they lawyer up. Just think about that scenario for a minute and decide which situation is more palatable: spending a chunk and getting it or handing over the keys to your house, your car and having your wages garnished for the rest of your life.

Passion type project or not (just call it a hobby because a spade is a spade) you'll likely be sued eventually if you stay in this business long enough. Those credentials will make all the difference in the outcome.

It's a necessary evil. It's not about validation. It's about protection.

 

[Michael White]

Most gyms don't want to pay for it because it's costly and the certification belongs to the instructor not the gym. But some will pay half or reimburse you if you've been there for a certain length of time after getting it.

@Michael White Certification is only necessary as a CYA insurance policy. Get it so if you're ever taken to court you can protect yourself from losing all of your assets. And yes, no one cares if you have it until someone gets hurt on your watch and they lawyer up. Just think about that scenario for a minute and decide which situation is more palatable: spending a chunk and getting it or handing over the keys to your house, your car and having your wages garnished for the rest of your life.

Passion type project or not (just call it a hobby because a spade is a spade) you'll likely be sued eventually if you stay in this business long enough. Those credentials will make all the difference in the outcome.

It's a necessary evil. It's not about validation. It's about protection.

I don't understand why though. Is it actually a rigorous aid in insuring safety? Is there some trick I don't know about spotting or teaching stunts? It's going back in a circle again, "get certified because if you get sued you'll wish you were certified". Is there someone there who says "yep, he's spotting safe." And checks a box on a piece of paper? I would like to know why such a seemingly simple certification is rapidly becoming necessary, and where the money is going, and I think those aren't such bad questions to ask.

Edit: and also, a hobby is something you spend a few hours a week doing, not 20-30 plus. I am passionate about it, therefore it is a passion project. I do it because I love seeing people I helped succeed and do things they've never done before. Just because you might not see it that way doesn't mean you have to tell someone it's only a hobby.

 

[Cheer Dad]

I am curious...wouldn't it be in a gym's best interest to pay for USASF certification for each coach? I would think that they would want the best that they could offer and one way would be to advertise that all of their coaches were certified.

For my job, my employer pays for my license for whatever state I am currently working. I just figured that this was the same way for cheer.

Depends on the gym as Michael said. Some do, some don't.


**Maybe I should try a new hobby**

 

[WinstonsGirl]

PP's already covered this, but your certification will help cover your butt legally if anything were to happen and you got sued. It's then on you to prove that you are not negligible. Certification is an easy way to do that. Yes, you could try to prove that your experience and background is enough, but most legal systems will want to see an association/board type certification. It may not actually help you prevent the injury any better, but because it is a set and agreed upon standard, it covers your butt and could be the difference in you being found negligent or not.

 

[AScheer]

I don't understand why though. Is it actually a rigorous aid in insuring safety? Is there some trick I don't know about spotting or teaching stunts? It's going back in a circle again, "get certified because if you get sued you'll wish you were certified". Is there someone there who says "yep, he's spotting safe." And checks a box on a piece of paper? I would like to know why such a seemingly simple certification is rapidly becoming necessary, and where the money is going, and I think those aren't such bad questions to ask.

I really don't want to jump in this, but here I go...

Negligence.

If you don't know much about it, google it. You may or may not learn anything new through certification. (My guess is that you will find something to take away from it but that isn't here nor there right now.) The main reason people get certified is to protect themselves. It is a sue happy world. I know we all like to think that we have amazing families in our gyms that would never sue. However, when their most prized and loved possession breaks her neck, its a different story and they'll lawyer up faster than you can blink. Freak accident or not, court cases are out to prove negligence. Negligence is how they win their cases. It's a whole lot easier for them to prove you were negligent, than for you to prove you weren't. Your posts on this board alone, could show that you're negligent by thinking you don't need to seek certification. The excuses that you've thrown out will not help your case either. A judge/laywer/parent etc will not care that it's too expensive, too far, too pointless. The certification helps protect you, stand up for you, and cover you. A certification doesn't automatically make you a better coach, just a more protected one. So while your questions of where the money goes, etc are valid questions, the main point is that it really doesn't matter. Cover yourself. Protect yourself. If that day ever comes, no one else will be looking out for you, and that certification will be worth every penny.

 

[cupieqt]

I don't understand why though. Is it actually a rigorous aid in insuring safety? Is there some trick I don't know about spotting or teaching stunts? It's going back in a circle again, "get certified because if you get sued you'll wish you were certified". Is there someone there who says "yep, he's spotting safe." And checks a box on a piece of paper? I would like to know why such a seemingly simple certification is rapidly becoming necessary, and where the money is going, and I think those aren't such bad questions to ask.

Edit: and also, a hobby is something you spend a few hours a week doing, not 20-30 plus. I am passionate about it, therefore it is a passion project. I do it because I love seeing people I helped succeed and do things they've never done before. Just because you might not see it that way doesn't mean you have to tell someone it's only a hobby.

Idk why it's hard to understand. Seems to me you just don't like it. Question it all you want, that's perfectly normal. But it's something you should do if you're going to continue to pursue your passion (or keep tending to your hobby...whatever you prefer to call it).

Or don't get it.

But if you don't like the answers you're getting here then maybe you should consult someone with more experience and expertise than yourself.

 

[Michael White]

Thanks for your input everyone.

 

[AngelsMum24]

This. For my mom to keep her license in accounting (she's a CPA) she has to do x amounts of credits per year and then continue to re-apply for her license every so often and it cost her in the thousands every year to do so.

Same for nursing. My current state requires 30 CEUs per year and we renew licensure every 2 years.

 

[catlady]

Certification tells the insurance underwriters, the people paying for the insurance, and those that you are training or providing care for, that you took the necessary action to reduce risk. When a sixteen year old gets a license, insurance companies give discounts if you can provide a certificate for a professional driving course, a hazard driving course or good grades. Certification of a sport does the same thing. If a new driver has an accident, their good grades and certificates of driving school will not sway whether or not they are responsible but, it very well could influence the punishment if it's serious. I can't speak for USASF certification but, most sports cover things such as cpr, natural disasters, basic first aid, what procedures to follow in the event of a major injury, etc. it doesn't just cover the sport safety itself. Not knowing what to do in the event of a tornado with a building full of kids could get you in just as much trouble as not knowing how to train properly.

 

[AngelsMum24]

When certification costs between $200 and $600 for one instructor, not even considering the travel expense/ hotel room if the instructor were to travel (which I would have to), I can understand why small gyms wouldn't want to be on the hook for the cost.

Not to mention that the credentials follow the individual coach. I am a nurse, my license follows me, so it is up to me to obtain the CEUs and licensure (and renewals). Same for coaches. Credentialing is on them although I do offer travel and lodging.