All-Star Your Daughter Won't Fly Forever

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To me, flying is also about the chemistry of the entire stunt group. It's not just about the flyer in isolation (how tall they are, how flexible, how they hold their weight), but how the group works together.

This is why we can't really talk about a maximal weight or height for a flyer, because it doesn't really exist. Sure, a 5'5 flyer might be quite tall, but if her bases are tall and strong, then it's no issue. Heck, a flyer could even be taller than all her bases and still hit perfectly because the group just works well.

I saw a lot of comments on a youtube video of SSX, where a tall flyer was based by a girl considerably shorter: "that's so crazy", "it looks stupid". But the stunt was perfect.
 
That was the 2014/2015 season, right? If I remember correctly, the base in question came up to the backspot's shoulders. (And she gave me hope that if I were to go back to cheer I could base.)
It was a pretty impressive partnership. Looked a bit weird when you really analyzed it, but it worked really well.
 
I've been getting this comment all season on my uni team. Being a 5'2 base when your stunt group (including my basing partner) are all taller than me, in theory should not work. But we've been consistently hitting things all season and haven't had any changes made to our group. Its also looking like we are going to be kept together next season as a stunt group for individual competition (tryout seasons blessed us all) so it'll be year 2 of the smallest base in Scotland keeping up a 5'6 and 5'7 flyer. Yes there are some amazing smaller and younger flyers out there, I will never deny that. But having two of the best flyers I've had during my whole cheer career be taller than me and "taller" flyers, my preference will now always lie with flying them. People are also welcome to have a different opinion to me but as I have stated previously I will always think that the taller flyer with incredible technique should fly ahead of the proverbial "wet noodle" 10 year old, as stunting should be in theory about what is the safest option as opposed to the easiest. However if a young flyer has the skill set to fly and controls their weight then they should be given the chance, but in my opinion it should be restricted to the cases that are truly capable and not kids that are pulled in to make it easier on a stunt group.
It was a pretty impressive partnership. Looked a bit weird when you really analyzed it, but it worked really well.
 
I think that age appropriate flyers look way better in my opinion I'm not talking about she's 10 and can be on a senior team I mean 14-18 year old girls flying even if they may be tall I'm 5'8 that's very tall for a girl but I'm super skinny and easy to lift so I fly from time to time (main position is backspot) I'm just saying it can be done so if a tall flyer has the skills age appropriate and the stunt hits I don't see why she should have to base because a youth aged kid wants to fly on a senior team


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No one is saying it can't be done, just that if you have a smaller flyer that holds their weight just as well, it's easier. You cannot argue with physics. FWIW, all the flyers on CP's senior team are 13 or older, and less than 5ft tall, under 90 lbs. They all LOOK about 10-11. They all do their job well. It would be poor coaching to replace one of them with a bigger, heavier girl just because they look younger and the bigger girl wants to fly.


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My IOLC6 team has 8 girls on the mat. I competed with them last weekend and I was the tallest at 5'3" (we lined up by height for photos and I was last).

Little Girl Syndrome is a real thing - I was horrible in high school (back when I was shorter and skinnier). It's not a thing that is true of all small flyers, but it's true of some. I can tell you that my smallest flyer is not my best flyer - not by a long shot. But we keeps putting her in all the stunts and pyramids and she keeps getting put with weaker guys and stunt groups strictly because of her size. It's easier to keep that 90lb girl in the air than someone who is 20lbs heavier.

That being said, I do love the look and lines of tall flyers on all girl teams. It's just not practical to put them in the air over 12 year olds who are much smaller.
 
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From the parent of a base, I don't blame the gym one bit for not forcing my 5'1" daughter to base a 5'6" flyer who cannot accept that her flying days are done. In a lot of cases, it keeps people from getting hurt.

Bottom line is that it's harder to hit with a taller, heavier flyer, assuming both flyers do their job. It's simple physics. The smaller girl with the same high skill level gets the job.

But often, the taller, heavier flyer is better at her job because she recognizes if shes not - she will fall. Where as smaller flyers can be less technically sound and the bases can essentially man handle her to keep her up.

The long term wear and tear on bases is an issue no one wants to talk about, but a lot of them have repetitive motion shoulder injuries that have to be treated surgically at some point in their lives. There are also a lot of back issues, even among bases that use proper technique, because of the repeated weight bearing. Limiting the amount they have to lift goes a long way to helping prevent those.

I genuinely believe you have some misinformation regarding the risk-reward, mechanics & physiology of weight training. I could go on for days about this as I have done first-hand research in university but 1) a 16 year old girl lifting weights will not 'bulk up' . She will not look masculine or be overly defined, unless that is the purpose of the training (ie. one rep maximum lifts) & it is accompanied by a very strict diet. and 2) There is an over abundance of science that proves weight training drastically reduces the risk of chronic injury & sports related over-use injury. joint injuries happen often from a lack of strength or an imbalance of strength around the joint (i.e. Hamstring is weaker than the athletes quad= they are more susceptible to a knee and/or hip injury). Weight training reduces these imbalances and increases joint stability, which will ultimately reduce injury. There is also evidence that overall bone density increases with weight training. increased bone density = stronger frame.

Cheer is different from Gymnastics & Dance as those athletes only have to move/manipulate their own bodies. (I trained at the national ballet of Canada and can confirm I never used weights in my dance training, nor were they necessary). However, cheerleaders have to manipulate an external mass (the flyer) therefore a different type of force is acting on their bodies. Weight training would be an applicable training application for cheerleaders.

I read a couple times in this thread that it is unsafe for young children to weight train. That is incorrect--according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, it is safe for children as young as 7 or 8 to weight train. It is not recommended to do power lifting, single repetition "max weight" type lifting

THANK YOU.

Perhaps. But, with all other things being equal, physics is still on the side of the smaller flyer.

There is always the argument 'all things being equal' - but that is not ever going to be the case.
 
But often, the taller, heavier flyer is better at her job because she recognizes if shes not - she will fall. Where as smaller flyers can be less technically sound and the bases can essentially man handle her to keep her up.



I genuinely believe you have some misinformation regarding the risk-reward, mechanics & physiology of weight training. I could go on for days about this as I have done first-hand research in university but 1) a 16 year old girl lifting weights will not 'bulk up' . She will not look masculine or be overly defined, unless that is the purpose of the training (ie. one rep maximum lifts) & it is accompanied by a very strict diet. and 2) There is an over abundance of science that proves weight training drastically reduces the risk of chronic injury & sports related over-use injury. joint injuries happen often from a lack of strength or an imbalance of strength around the joint (i.e. Hamstring is weaker than the athletes quad= they are more susceptible to a knee and/or hip injury). Weight training reduces these imbalances and increases joint stability, which will ultimately reduce injury. There is also evidence that overall bone density increases with weight training. increased bone density = stronger frame.

Cheer is different from Gymnastics & Dance as those athletes only have to move/manipulate their own bodies. (I trained at the national ballet of Canada and can confirm I never used weights in my dance training, nor were they necessary). However, cheerleaders have to manipulate an external mass (the flyer) therefore a different type of force is acting on their bodies. Weight training would be an applicable training application for cheerleaders.



THANK YOU.



There is always the argument 'all things being equal' - but that is not ever going to be the case.
As someone who is a PT and deals with this stuff on a daily basis, so much yes to this post!! I've been cringing at some things posted in this thread wondering how some parents could be so misinformed.
 
No matter how misinformed certain people have been (in this thread and in others), they will argue their point to death to try to prove they are right.
@nicolee and @cfwp.cheerleader and others have made some great points and I've enjoyed reading your posts.

Is it possible to LOVE a post instead of liking or shimmying? I've come to the conclusion long ago that no matter the topic, some people argue for the sake of arguing.
 
There is always the argument 'all things being equal' - but that is not ever going to be the case.[/QUOTE]

True. And there are some cases where a larger athlete better suited for the position, but in general, physics still favors the smaller flyer. So, unless this smaller athlete is uncoachable and a hot mess in the air, I'd rather invest the time in teaching her the correct technique, so she becomes an asset to the team, rather than pushing the bases to lift someone who is much heavier. Even those who argue that larger is better know that there is a limit to how large. Why? Because there is such thing as too large and too heavy. Where that limit is depends on the bases.
 
@seajack A back spot has to pull up. It's mostly a back spot fault if a flyer is heavy for there bases. The more the back spot pulls up, the less pressure of the flyer for the bases.
 
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