All-Star Your Daughter Won't Fly Forever

[OnceUponACheerleader]

There is always the argument 'all things being equal' - but that is not ever going to be the case.

True. And there are some cases where a larger athlete better suited for the position, but in general, physics still favors the smaller flyer. So, unless this smaller athlete is uncoachable and a hot mess in the air, I'd rather invest the time in teaching her the correct technique, so she becomes an asset to the team, rather than pushing the bases to lift someone who is much heavier. Even those who argue that larger is better know that there is a limit to how large. Why? Because there is such thing as too large and too heavy. Where that limit is depends on the bases.

Agreed!

 

[seajack]

@dat.jpp I understand that. I just didnt understand your comment in regards to my post. Regardless of how good the backspot is, there reaches a point where the flyer is just too heavy for the people below her. Where that point is, will vary from group to group, but every group has a stopping point where they can no longer effectively base a flyer due to her weight.

 

[rdavis4]

To me, flying is also about the chemistry of the entire stunt group. It's not just about the flyer in isolation (how tall they are, how flexible, how they hold their weight), but how the group works together.

This is why we can't really talk about a maximal weight or height for a flyer, because it doesn't really exist. Sure, a 5'5 flyer might be quite tall, but if her bases are tall and strong, then it's no issue. Heck, a flyer could even be taller than all her bases and still hit perfectly because the group just works well.

I saw a lot of comments on a youtube video of SSX, where a tall flyer was based by a girl considerably shorter: "that's so crazy", "it looks stupid". But the stunt was perfect.

My CP is only a mini but her FAVORITE flyer is one of the tallest kids on the team! This girl is all legs and muscle, and according to my CP (who weighs just as much as her flyer) she's the lightest flyer she bases because she's so tight and not afraid. CP also bases the smallest girl on the team and says she's very hard to base because she isn't tight, looks down, etc. CP is also a small base (at that age they are all about the same size) and it does look kind of funny when she's basing the tall one but when you ask her who she prefers to base, it's always the tall one.

 

[123jump4!]

My CP is only a mini but her FAVORITE flyer is one of the tallest kids on the team! This girl is all legs and muscle, and according to my CP (who weighs just as much as her flyer) she's the lightest flyer she bases because she's so tight and not afraid. CP also bases the smallest girl on the team and says she's very hard to base because she isn't tight, looks down, etc. CP is also a small base (at that age they are all about the same size) and it does look kind of funny when she's basing the tall one but when you ask her who she prefers to base, it's always the tall one.

My CP is 8 and a flyer on a mini team. Her bases are just slightly bigger than her but apparently they have told her she's not too heavy... so she must be doing something right then.

 

[Quotation]

But often, the taller, heavier flyer is better at her job because she recognizes if shes not - she will fall. Where as smaller flyers can be less technically sound and the bases can essentially man handle her to keep her up.



I genuinely believe you have some misinformation regarding the risk-reward, mechanics & physiology of weight training. I could go on for days about this as I have done first-hand research in university but 1) a 16 year old girl lifting weights will not 'bulk up' . She will not look masculine or be overly defined, unless that is the purpose of the training (ie. one rep maximum lifts) & it is accompanied by a very strict diet. and 2) There is an over abundance of science that proves weight training drastically reduces the risk of chronic injury & sports related over-use injury. joint injuries happen often from a lack of strength or an imbalance of strength around the joint (i.e. Hamstring is weaker than the athletes quad= they are more susceptible to a knee and/or hip injury). Weight training reduces these imbalances and increases joint stability, which will ultimately reduce injury. There is also evidence that overall bone density increases with weight training. increased bone density = stronger frame.

Cheer is different from Gymnastics & Dance as those athletes only have to move/manipulate their own bodies. (I trained at the national ballet of Canada and can confirm I never used weights in my dance training, nor were they necessary). However, cheerleaders have to manipulate an external mass (the flyer) therefore a different type of force is acting on their bodies. Weight training would be an applicable training application for cheerleaders.



THANK YOU.



There is always the argument 'all things being equal' - but that is not ever going to be the case.

YES! YES TO ALL OF THIS!

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

YES! YES TO ALL OF THIS!

:cheering:

 

[cheer25mom]

Some people will argue a point to death.... on both sides of this argument because there is a lot of emotion involved. There shouldn't be, but because of the attention and emphasis placed on flyers it is very difficult to remain objective, particularly when you are used to getting that attention and it's being taken from you.

As to the weight training debate, apparently professional opinions differ here. That's fine, but I trust our doctor to do what's right for my kid.


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[cpersichilli]

My CP is only a mini but her FAVORITE flyer is one of the tallest kids on the team! This girl is all legs and muscle, and according to my CP (who weighs just as much as her flyer) she's the lightest flyer she bases because she's so tight and not afraid. CP also bases the smallest girl on the team and says she's very hard to base because she isn't tight, looks down, etc. CP is also a small base (at that age they are all about the same size) and it does look kind of funny when she's basing the tall one but when you ask her who she prefers to base, it's always the tall one.

I ran into this exact situation on my college team, our tinniest girl, who we thought would make a great flyer, turned out to be one of the hardest to base, and we were only doing preps with her, she was double jointed in her knees so she couldnt lock them out, and she just didnt know how to properly be tight, and how to handle herself in the air, but we had another girl, who was a little bit heavier than her, not as thin, but she was a dream to base because she held her weight incredibly. I think i can speak for a lot of bases in saying that I would take someone that weighs more, but holds their weight better, than a flyer who weighs less but doesnt hold her weight.

 

[MissCongeniality]

I ran into this exact situation on my college team, our tinniest girl, who we thought would make a great flyer, turned out to be one of the hardest to base, and we were only doing preps with her, she was double jointed in her knees so she couldnt lock them out, and she just didnt know how to properly be tight, and how to handle herself in the air, but we had another girl, who was a little bit heavier than her, not as thin, but she was a dream to base because she held her weight incredibly. I think i can speak for a lot of bases in saying that I would take someone that weighs more, but holds their weight better, than a flyer who weighs less but doesnt hold her weight.

I know my daughter would 100% agree with you. She has also said that she prefers flyers with bigger feet!

 

[cpersichilli]

I know my daughter would 100% agree with you. She has also said that she prefers flyers with bigger feet!

I think most people can agree with that! haha, especially when you get beyond two leg stunts to libs.

 

[IEA.Elizabeth]

No one is saying it can't be done, just that if you have a smaller flyer that holds their weight just as well, it's easier. You cannot argue with physics. FWIW, all the flyers on CP's senior team are 13 or older, and less than 5ft tall, under 90 lbs. They all LOOK about 10-11. They all do their job well. It would be poor coaching to replace one of them with a bigger, heavier girl just because they look younger and the bigger girl wants to fly.


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I think it's perfectly fine to have small flyers that are age appropriate to be on a senior team the way I look at it is a girl has been a flyer for awhile and everything is hitting but then has to base because stunts are "easier" to hit with a 10 year old flyer it's not fair to the the other girl who has worked her butt off to be a good flyer and is appropriately aged for a senior team


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[fablilflyer]

At 4'11, I know that I am best off as a flyer, but my first two seasons of all star I based. My first season started off flying, but got asked to base and ended up being great at it, basing a girl bigger than me, because of all the conditioning and strength training I was given. My last season I was on two junior teams, on my J1 my flyer was eight, and on J2, the other was 11. At 15, I could base both these girls with one hand, because I was so well conditioned to base from the previous year. Coming in to High School cheer as a junior, I begged to base, but was stuck as a flyer because of my height. Sometimes being grounded is what's best for a flyer, because if I hadn't been grounded, I would never have become well rounded, or have any motivation to make myself stronger.

 

[justcheering]

My IOLC6 team has 8 girls on the mat. I competed with them last weekend and I was the tallest at 5'3" (we lined up by height for photos and I was last).

Little Girl Syndrome is a real thing - I was horrible in high school (back when I was shorter and skinnier). It's not a thing that is true of all small flyers, but it's true of some. I can tell you that my smallest flyer is not my best flyer - not by a long shot. But we keeps putting her in all the stunts and pyramids and she keeps getting put with weaker guys and stunt groups strictly because of her size. It's easier to keep that 90lb girl in the air than someone who is 20lbs heavier.

That being said, I do love the look and lines of tall flyers on all girl teams. It's just not practical to put them in the air over 12 year olds who are much smaller.

Sorry but what is "little girl syndrome"? I've never heard that saying before. Is it just what it sounds like?

 

[luv2cheer92]

Sorry but what is "little girl syndrome"? I've never heard that saying before. Is it just what it sounds like?

Basically when a flyer knows they are tiny and thinks that means they don't have to be tight, because they think the bases can hold them up anyway.

 

[Ashley]

Basically when a flyer knows they are tiny and thinks that means they don't have to be tight, because they think the bases can hold them up anyway.

I don't even think it's that they don't think they need to be tight, it's just that they don't know how to be. They're small, their bases can manhandle them and keep them in the air and they just haven't learned the body control that would make them good flyers.

I've seen the term noodle used in this thread and that was literally my nickname in HS. My old AIM account and email address is NoodleAshy. I got to college and made the team because it was coed and I was tiny and my coach whipped me into shape. I'm almost 30 and wouldn't be able to keep cheering if I hadn't outgrown that. I'm not that small anymore.