All-Star Design the perfect scoring system

[rvnblue]

sounds good to me

 

[King]

Im probably going to start making a rubric soon, and teh scoresheets themselves.

I wont even be bashful that I will use a lot of terms that NCA used or has used, since it is one of the better ones.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Compulsory skills to put you in the correct level range (there is no requirement for level 1 since that is the starting level). Help adjust if needed

Level 2
Stunting - One leg stunt at chin level
basket - straight ride
pyramid - extended one leg
standing - standing HS
running - RO HS
jumps - 2 connected jumps

Level 3
Stunting - Full down
basket - one trick basket
pyramid - one release move
standing - standing multiple HS
running - RO HS Tuck
jumps - Jump handspring connection

Level 4
Stunting - two legged double down
basket - two trick basket
pyramid - braced flip
standing - standing tuck
running - layout
jumps - Jump handspring tuck


Level 5
Stunting - Extended one leg double down
basket - kick double basket
pyramid - one arm braced flip
standing - something that ends in a twist
running - something that ends with a twist
jumps - connected jump flip combo

Why not give level 1 requirements?
Stunting - One leg stunt at waist level
basket - (None, so make it cradle needed from prep)
pyramid - extended two leg
standing - front or back walkovers
running - roundoff
jumps - 1 advanced jump (i.e. not a tuck or a spread eagle lol)

 

[King]

Why not give level 1 requirements?
Stunting - One leg stunt at waist level
basket - (None, so make it cradle needed from prep)
pyramid - extended two leg
standing - front or back walkovers
running - roundoff
jumps - 1 advanced jump (i.e. not a tuck or a spread eagle lol)

because the requirements are to move up to another level of scoring. level 1 is the basis of all cheerleading. you can do a tuck or spread eagle in level 1 and just be scored low, but still be scored. walkovers are not easy skills and some teams can just forward or backward roll. extending a pyramid in level 1 is hell on earth sometimes. cradles are a requirement. some teams may want to do knee stunts instead of belly button level.

 

[Num1Stunta]

because the requirements are to move up to another level of scoring. level 1 is the basis of all cheerleading. you can do a tuck or spread eagle in level 1 and just be scored low, but still be scored. walkovers are not easy skills and some teams can just forward or backward roll. extending a pyramid in level 1 is hell on earth sometimes. cradles are a requirement. some teams may want to do knee stunts instead of belly button level.

I see the logic there. But I notice now that it's scored the same as other levels in terms of maxing out. Maybe add the required stunt elements for the jr/sr L1's and the tumbling compulsory for mini/youth.... thoughts on that are just that it's harder to get older ones tumbling and harder to get younger ones stunting. jmo

 

[King]

I see the logic there. But I notice now that it's scored the same as other levels in terms of maxing out. Maybe add the required stunt elements for the jr/sr L1's and the tumbling compulsory for mini/youth.... thoughts on that are just that it's harder to get older ones tumbling and harder to get younger ones stunting. jmo

not really needed because all the ages are battling the same battles.

one problem in cheer scoring is we will often over inflate scores so no one feels bad. because of this people dont work on the areas they need to get better. like our international scoresheets emphasizing stunting so they catch up on tumbling....

 

[King]

adjusting my percentages:

originally I had cheer worth 25% (which means choreography was worth 12.5%) and skills 37.5% (which divided by 4 means all skills are just worth 9.375% of your score... so a team could out dance and motion another team to win).

Tumbling - 42.5%
Stunting - 42.5%
Cheer - 15%

Meaning each skill set carries 10.625%
and dance and cheer are both worth 7.5%

What does that mean?

Each skill point is worth about 3 times as much as a choreography point. So a team with 3 times as much skill as another with just a cute routine can't get beaten just cause they have 'cute' choreography. But, if that skilled team completely ignores motions, dance, transitions and what not they can gain get beaten by a team with the same skill but works on the basics.

 

[King]

to reduce confusion while scoring, if a team does not compete the compulsory skill (which should be fairly standard in all the levels) than that team would receive a .5 in the skill level below their competing level.

For example, if a Level 5 team competed NO double downs from 1 leg (as long as they competed one 1 legged double down they are fine) they would get a difficulty score of 6.5 (their normal difficulty range is 7-8). While this sounds difficulty there would be a check box to the side of the scoresheet that a judge would just check if the skill is NOT performed that is required.

 

[Jessica]

to reduce confusion while scoring, if a team does not compete the compulsory skill (which should be fairly standard in all the levels) than that team would receive a .5 in the skill level below their competing level.

For example, if a Level 5 team competed NO double downs from 1 leg (as long as they competed one 1 legged double down they are fine) they would get a difficulty score of 6.5 (their normal difficulty range is 7-8). While this sounds difficulty there would be a check box to the side of the scoresheet that a judge would just check if the skill is NOT performed that is required.

So to get into the 7-8 range would they just need to compete 1 (as in one stunt group one time) single leg double down?

 

[King]

I

So to get into the 7-8 range would they just need to compete 1 (as in one stunt group one time) single leg double down?

Yes. But if that's all you did you would problem receive just a 7. And get killed.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab

 

[kristenthegreat]

As scoresheets aren't my specialty now, I could easily be content with this scoresheet. Simple to understand, straightforward, and with goals that aren't necessarily limitations (ie having 'compulsory' parts that get you there without defining what EXACTLY you have to do and making it cookie-cutter). Things weighed realistically and 'equally.' Brilliant.

 

[King]

As scoresheets aren't my specialty now, I could easily be content with this scoresheet. Simple to understand, straightforward, and with goals that aren't necessarily limitations (ie having 'compulsory' parts that get you there without defining what EXACTLY you have to do and making it cookie-cutter). Things weighed realistically and 'equally.' Brilliant.

ok, so what are the weaknesses of it? i want to hammer out the issues

 

[CGAcheer]

In level 3 if you did an extended 1 leg stunt, but didn't do two leg full down, would that drop you to the .5 of the range below? What if you did like a maxed out level 2 stunt in level 3, is it an automatic .5 of the lower range or could it be .8? If someone did just level 1 stunts at level 3 would they still be at that same .5?

Also, if you hit all of the listed skills, does that put you at the bottom of the range or middle?

have you thought about a transitions or load ins and dismounts type score in stunts and pyramids to score all of the full ups, double downs tick tocks handstand over the back, and flips and release moves separate from the actual stunt or pyramid?

 

[kristenthegreat]

ok, so what are the weaknesses of it? i want to hammer out the issues

Just reading back through the thread and some of the ideas thrown out, just my few minor suggestions/thoughts. My major concern is simplification, as not only does this help coaches/athletes, it also helps parents/fans, thereby cutting down argument and unnecessary debate:

*Ratio multiplier for skills (x number of girls you should be throwing y #of skills). I like this, just make it simple to understand per section (building, tumbling etc). How will it effect your score? Under which part (execution? difficulty? It's own section?) Since you're using ranges, will it hurt your range placement as in 7.5 instead of 8 [if that's the max]? What about a team like CEA who does above the level 5 compulsory for skills but uses 8 stunt groups in one section (just as an example)?

*If you're going to use a ratio multiplier for deductions, same as above. Simplification. As an outsider, this could be simple OR difficult to understand, depending on how you choose to implement it, if you even choose to. I'd need to see the concept in action against an actual team's routine (pick any video) and show me how it would work.

*If you're not going to use a deduction multiplier (or even if you are) what are the basic deductions for skills? Make sure it's explicitly labeled as clear as you can make it what constitutes a bobble, a fall, a 'collapse' (when the stunt comes down to the ground/or falls worse than a cradle catch), a touchdown, a bust. What happens when part of a pyramid doesn't go? How do you deduct on that? I'm assuming we haven't addressed these things yet, but they're popping in my head as I go along.

I'm sure I'll think of other things as I go along.

 

[Coach Troy]

Ok so I read through and most posts are using the current system and modifying it..

mine would require a little education for Judges, coaches, and choreographers but I think it would retain cheerleading's creativity but add a system that diminishes bias. I will use a small sample to try and get my point across.

The idea would be to require every routine be given a start value in each category equal to the level competing.
Level 1 Points allowed 4 - 5
standing tumbling
Start Value 4
Few level skills
Start Value 4.1
Majority fwd rolls, bkwd rolls,
Start value 4.3
few bridge kickovers, few back walkovers
start value 4.5
majority back walkovers
start value 4.7
majority back walkover series
BONUS
technique .2
creativity .1

So say Team A has full squad Fwd rolls PLUS a few bridge kick overs and I had great creativity and good technique my score would be ...
Start Value 4.3 PLUS a creativity bonus of .1 PLUS good technique bonus .2 for a score of 4.6
and Team B has full squad back walkovers but average creativity and technique
Start Value 4.5 no bonus for a score of 4.5
-OR-

Team A full Squad walkover series PLUS great technique
Start Value 4.7 PLUS technique bonus of .2 for a 4.9
Team B has full squad Bkwd rolls PLUS few Back walkovers PLUS great technique and creativity
Start Value 4.3 Plus .3 bonus for a score of 4.6

Now as a coach and choreographer I need to know my squads skills PLUS what my start value could be and what bonus points I could be given and then use my creativity to achieve my highest score possible.

As a judge I must be alert to the skills thrown and use my judgment ONLY in awarding the appropriate bonus points.