All-Star Flyers

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I always felt bad for the itty bitties because they typically got the sketchiest bases lol. Also I am impressed to see so many younger flyers with gorgeous technique, they aren't just in the air because they are little but it's also because they know what they are doing. Until the age grid changes you can't blame programs for being strategic with team placements, especially with this new score sheet :help:.
 
It definitely depends on the kid. I was just pointing out that i have seen the opposite be true. I have seen being placed on a senior team do wonders for a kid's maturity and allow them to really step up and contribute to the team.
I also sometime think the younger kids are much less affected by pressure and/or expectations than pre-teens and teenagers and that in and of itself is a huge advantage.
 
It looks like cheating to me when almost every flyer on a senior 5 team is prepubescent. I side-eye teams that do this. Unless that flyer is one of the strongest tumblers on the entire team - (yes many of them have the minimum skills to make the team, but usually more than half the team can tumble and jump much better) - don't tell me they weren't put on that team specifically to fly.

I agree that flyers should be small, and when a girl outgrows her similarly aged bases she should come down - but replacing a 5'1" 105 pound 14 year old w/ a 12 year old who only weighs 80 pounds is not the right answer either.

It's because of this that I support increasing the minimum age on senior 5 teams - at least for large gyms. I think it should be an age where most girls are fully grown/through puberty - prob 14. Put that tiny 12 year old w/ a full on a Junior team.

If there was no minimum age on Senior aged teams, do you really think people wouldn't put 9 year olds on worlds teams? I'm sure they would.
 
Sidenote: What is the issue we have with kids being on teams specifically to fly?

Peyton Manning was placed on his team specifically to be a QB.

There are athletes on the US gymnastics team who are termed event specialists.

....but when we start talking flyers being the team specifically to be flyers, everyone goes crazy!
 
It looks like cheating to me when almost every flyer on a senior 5 team is prepubescent. I side-eye teams that do this. Unless that flyer is one of the strongest tumblers on the entire team - (yes many of them have the minimum skills to make the team, but usually more than half the team can tumble and jump much better) - don't tell me they weren't put on that team specifically to fly.

I agree that flyers should be small, and when a girl outgrows her similarly aged bases she should come down - but replacing a 5'1" 105 pound 14 year old w/ a 12 year old who only weighs 80 pounds is not the right answer either.

It's because of this that I support increasing the minimum age on senior 5 teams - at least for large gyms. I think it should be an age where most girls are fully grown/through puberty - prob 14. Put that tiny 12 year old w/ a full on a Junior team.

If there was no minimum age on Senior aged teams, do you really think people wouldn't put 9 year olds on worlds teams? I'm sure they would.
Of course they were put on that team to fly, because they can out fly the heavier girl. Unless and until the rules change that's not cheating, its smart coaching. Why would you not fly the best flyers with the necessary skills for the team? Our little flyers are actually some of our strongest tumblers, but that isn't always the case. Either way, the coaches are putting the team in the best position to win by putting the best flyers they have in the air. There is nothing wrong with that, and frankly its necessary if you want to be successful.

I do agree however that the rules about this need to change. It is a difficult proposition though because of the impact on small gyms.
 
If the girl deserves to be on that team then I don't think she should be counted out because she is younger. She still deserves it because of her tumbling, jumps, dance, and technique most likely.
This is the thing that bothers me, a lot of fetus flyers... Or even just tiny flyers In general, make teams they don't have the tumbling for. Their jumps aren't as great either (but that's fine depending on how many athletes are on the floor IMO). They just throw these girls on the team because they can fly that level and are easier to base. Totally not fair at all. Some of the Flyers we see on these well known teams don't deserve to be on them.
 
Double Post. Sorry
But I hate the fact that once flyers become a certain height, coaches make them base. Did you guys know that certain colleges have height restrictions for flyers??? That's not cool. How do you take someone out of the air who's been flying for 13 years and say "well you're 5'5, better learn how to base"??? Weight/height does not determine skill and if the bases can't base that flyer then IMO there's an issue w the bases.
 
This is the thing that bothers me, a lot of fetus flyers... Or even just tiny flyers In general, make teams they don't have the tumbling for. Their jumps aren't as great either (but that's fine depending on how many athletes are on the floor IMO). They just throw these girls on the team because they can fly that level and are easier to base. Totally not fair at all. Some of the Flyers we see on these well known teams don't deserve to be on them.
It is no less fair than a girl who comes from gymnastics and has never based before making the team by virtue of her tumbling. No one bats an eye at that, in fact it is encouraged. She cannot contribute to stunts right off the bat, and has to be taught everything from the ground up, often ending up as a stunt nugget. No one insists she be bumped down a level or 2 to learn to stunt properly, yet we want flyers who have the skills for the team to be willing to compete 2 levels down just because they are small??

Stunts count for almost twice what tumbling does on a score sheet. It makes sense to focus on maxing them out by putting the best flyers in the air.
 
I don't understand why people wouldn't want to raise the minimum age. Like yes, your small gym might not be able to have a full team. But if you have one stunt group and that's all you have that are senior aged, then too bad. You complete as a small team from a small gym. I've literally seen teams of maybe 7 girls and they go out there and kill it. Is it going to be harder? Yes. But to me it makes a lot more sense then throwing half your youth team onto a senior team.
Also I have nothing against small gyms! I'm from one. But being a senior aged athele on a team that was 90% youth and junior aged sucked and really held us back.
 
Double Post. Sorry
if the bases can't base that flyer then IMO there's an issue w the bases.
this just isn't true. Its about physics, center of gravity and weight distribution. It is VERY difficult for a 5'5" flyer to achieve the same level of co-ed stunting as a girl that is 4'9". Its simple physics, and not the base's fault. Her center of gravity is higher and there is nothing she can do to change that. Compensate for it, yes, but that often isn't enough when you are looking for an NCAA championship. Same holds true for all girl, but to a lesser degree. A flyer that is 5'5" has an easier time on a stunt group that trying to do co-ed but if her bases are all in the 5'1" to 5'3" ranger they are going to be at a disadvantage.
 
It is no less fair than a girl who comes from gymnastics and has never based before making the team by virtue of her tumbling. No one bats an eye at that, in fact it is encouraged. She cannot contribute to stunts right off the bat, and has to be taught everything from the ground up, often ending up as a stunt nugget. No one insists she be bumped down a level or 2 to learn to stunt properly, yet we want flyers who have the skills for the team to be willing to compete 2 levels down just because they are small??

Stunts count for almost twice what tumbling does on a score sheet. It makes sense to focus on maxing them out by putting the best flyers in the air.
I would bat the eye at that scenario as well, because you need to learn how to base a certain level before you compete that level. But I just don't like that fact that there are flyers who barely have jumps to tuck and a janky running through to tuck who are on L5 over flyers who have it all. Same w L4.
 
I would bat the eye at that scenario as well, because you need to learn how to base a certain level before you compete that level. But I just don't like that fact that there are flyers who barely have jumps to tuck and a janky running through to tuck who are on L5 over flyers who have it all. Same w L4.


I think this all goes back to the score sheet... a gym can get away with having 1 "janky" tumbler on a team but having a "janky" flyer would hurt that score sheet when it come to stunting. Stunts account for more than tumbling at least that's what I've learned from this board.
 
A flyer that is 5'5" has an easier time on a stunt group that trying to do co-ed but if her bases are all in the 5'1" to 5'3" ranger they are going to be at a disadvantage.
I am 5'5" and had bases who were 2-3 inches shorter than me last year and we were one of the most consistent stunt groups on the team. I don't think you can characterize all stunt groups with a flyer taller than her bases as being at a disadvantage, it really depends on each group.
 
I would bat the eye at that scenario as well, because you need to learn how to base a certain level before you compete that level. But I just don't like that fact that there are flyers who barely have jumps to tuck and a janky running through to tuck who are on L5 over flyers who have it all. Same w L4.
Stunts count for almost twice what tumbling does and their are fewer flyers in the air making each heel stretch much more important than each tuck from a scoring standpoint. It makes sense when trying to max out a score sheet to pick the stronger flyer even if she is a slightly weaker tumbler, or even id she doesn't have all the tumbling. Flying ability gets you more points than tumbling, and if that means using a flyer who does a better job hitting but may not be a a good a tumbler then it makes sense to do it as long as you have enough tumbling to max out the score sheet. I highly doubt that anyone would purposely choose a girl who is a weaker flyer AND tumbler just because she is small.
 
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