All-Star "males - Minimize Exaggerated Or Theatrical Movements"

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I think they did ask the girls to act like ladies by suggesting inappropriate movements and dancing get taken out. Also, cheer is the perfect sport for girls because they can show their athleticism and still be feminine. (skirts, uniforms, bows, make up) ... And they even asked that that be toned back some (Which everyone is ticked about also). So I wouldn't say they are attacking just boys.

And by the way, my boss is just extremely wealthy and set in his ways. I clean a pool, blow off his driveway, wash his $1.6 M cars, etc. I don't think safety is an issue. Although I did almost get bit by a water moccasin the other day at his 88 acre lake.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

What do you tell the girls when they want to walk around with their shirt off like the boys? Don't be mean...

That's completely different and you know it. Asking a girl to put her shirt back on is not asking her to change, alter or hide her personality.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

That's completely different and you know it. Asking a girl to put her shirt back on is not asking her to change, alter or hide her personality.

Not in the logic of a 6 year old. I tried to get my nephew to not stick a bobby pin in an electrical outlet and he cried and screamed and said "you're mean" and ran tell my sister. Was I really being mean?

I was being facetious with the above comment and I apologize. I just wouldn't base an argument on the opinions of a 6 year old.

 

[SarahS]

That's completely different and you know it. Asking a girl to put her shirt back on is not asking her to change, alter or hide her personality.

Exactly. The statement that boys should act like boys assumes that there is one normal, natural way for boys to act and that all else is abnormal and unnatural. That is not the idea that I, personally, want to promote in a world that, nearly everywhere else, already makes these kids feel like they're abnormal just in living the way that is natural for them. I have two sons and as a parent, I ensure that they're allowed to feel "normal" in their own skins. My teams are an extension of my family, and you best be darn sure that I extend the same right to feel normal to each and every one of them, regardless of whether they act "gender appropriate " (I hate that term) or not.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Not in the logic of a 6 year old. I tried to get my nephew to not stick a bobby pin in an electrical outlet and he cried and screamed and said "you're mean" and ran tell my sister. Was I really being mean?

I was being facetious with the above comment and I apologize. I just wouldn't base an argument on the opinions of a 6 year old.

I understand your logic here. I beg to differ though. It's not about how I appear to my athletes but how they feel about themselves. The fact that the only way to explain this standard to boys is by saying "It's not right for boys to act like that" is discouraging and sad. Cheerleading is a sport that, like any other, is meant to build children's confidence and self-esteem both athletically and in the outside world. This is NOT an idea that would build a child's self-esteem. Instead, I believe it could harm a child's view of himself.

 

[Rudags]

I don't see how walking around nude or sticking objects in an electrical socket compare to telling ONLY MALES to tone it down and act like guys.... And Im trying to be very open about the flip side of the argument....

Aren't you a USASF rep? Cheer_Explosion_Coach

 

[Itsamidwestthing]

So is making a different scoresheet with co-ed stunts discrimanitory? We don't make the girls do these stunts, so we are forcing the boys to act differently than the girls. This is not just a guide, it will almost certainly decide placements if you choose not to do co-ed stunts.

 

[Rudags]

UltimateRudags, please chime in - would you have had a problem if the suggestion had been targeted at both males and females?

No.... I would not have a problem if gender were completely erased and it said "No overexaggerated or theatrical movements"

 

[retiredl5cheer]

So is making a different scoresheet with co-ed stunts discrimanitory? We don't make the girls do these stunts, so we are forcing the boys to act differently than the girls. This is not just a guide, it will almost certainly decide placements if you choose not to do co-ed stunts.

If your girls can do those stunts then feel free to put them in. I would hope that they would be scored the same way as the boys.

 

[viralscorp]

We do make girls do these stunts in the all-girl divisions...

 

[Rudags]

So is making a different scoresheet with co-ed stunts discrimanitory? We don't make the girls do these stunts, so we are forcing the boys to act differently than the girls. This is not just a guide, it will almost certainly decide placements if you choose not to do co-ed stunts.

For one, not ALL competition companies have a separate Coed or All Girl scoresheet. At that point, you could pick and choose which events to attend as you have options. Also, you are not singling out a group of individuals because of a PHYSICAL characteristic that they have no choice in. All-Girl teams can still 'Coed' stunt if they choose to. Some scoresheets would even reward that and it would probably play into over all impression categories.

If they said "Girls are not allowed to Coed stunt" then perhaps you could get into sexist comments.

 

[Itsamidwestthing]

If your girls can do those stunts then feel free to put them in. I would hope that they would be scored the same way as the boys.

What I'm saying is the co-ed scoresheet for Worlds has points for traditional co-ed stunts, meaning one guy basing one girl. The all girl scoresheet doesn't have this requirement. If you choose to not do these stunts, you will not receive these point and the team that does will score higher than you. I agree with this, but feel it it more discrimanitory than the guide that we are talking about.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

What I'm saying is the co-ed scoresheet for Worlds has points for traditional co-ed stunts, meaning one guy basing one girl. The all girl scoresheet doesn't have this requirement. If you choose to not do these stunts, you will not receive these point and the team that does will score higher than you. I agree with this, but feel it it more discrimanitory than the guide that we are talking about.

Good point. I hadn't really thought of that and I'm not sure where I stand on it right now. The difference I see off the top of my head is that one is a positive while the other is a negative. Coed stunting is a skill that is expected at level 5 for boys. They are encouraged and pushed to do these stunts and it improves them as athletes. The "theatrical" expectation is a negative. It is a "don't do that" rule that does not help an athlete's skills.

 

[SarahS]

What I'm saying is the co-ed scoresheet for Worlds has points for traditional co-ed stunts, meaning one guy basing one girl. The all girl scoresheet doesn't have this requirement. If you choose to not do these stunts, you will not receive these point and the team that does will score higher than you. I agree with this, but feel it it more discrimanitory than the guide that we are talking about.

If a coed team did stunts with one girl as base and one girl as flyer, do they not receive the points? This is an honest question - there are some girls who are just as capable as guys in these stunts- does the score sheet say specifically that, in order to get coed points, the base must be male? If it does, your argument has merit. (I looked it up - nope, just says "one base" and "one top person.") The all girl division is a separate division and has separate rules.

It appears that what you're arguing is that, in order to be non-discriminatory, girls and boys must be treated completely equal in terms of athletic strength, and, in essence, would render the coed division pointless. I would argue that there is a difference between the expectation that coed teams, in general, will have stronger members who are more able to base a stunt on his or her own than all girl teams (when the rules do not specify that the base has to be a male), and the expectation that males somehow, in essence, "act manly." The difference is that, in the coed instance, either males or females can be the single base, whereas in the "males should not be theatrical" instruction, it specifically restricts one gender from performing a certain way.

 

[FamousMatty]

Just as side note...more for a laugh than an actual question. But I have a smaller boy on my 4.2 team who hasn't hit his growth spurt yet. With the rules changing next year to level 3 and 4 coed teams having to stunt to, we wondered if it still counts as coed if we have one girl toss the one boy