All-Star New Rules Released Today?

[tumbleyoda]

In 2008 NCA/Varsity also sent an e-mail to college coaches. The e-mail stated that if you went to another competition deemed a College National and were announced as a National Champion you would risk participation in Daytona. I think the only other College Nationals at the time were a Jambrands and Cheersport. Looking at this now, especially since there is not a true path to either a UCA or NCA National this seems like an illogical back door attempt to shut down competition .

Again if IIRC a letter was also sent out over a similar situation with an International Championship that was going to be held. That is at least three times they have used that tactic Apparently they have no problem sending off missives to protect their event as well as the dream of going to their event as the only World championship for your program if you think about attending any other World championships but theirs.

 

[mstealtoyou]

Logical Fallacies» Straw Man Fallacy

Straw Man Fallacy

Explanation

A straw man argument is one that misrepresents a position in order to make it appear weaker than it actually is, refutes this misrepresentation of the position, and then concludes that the real position has been refuted. This, of course, is a fallacy, because the position that has been claimed to be refuted is different to that which has actually been refuted; the real target of the argument is untouched by it.

Thank you friend!

 

[mstealtoyou]

Again if IIRC a letter was also sent out over a similar situation with an International Championship that was going to be held. That is at least three times they have used that tactic Apparently they have no problem sending off missives to protect their event as well as the dream of going to their event as the only World championship for your program if you think about attending any other World championships but theirs.

I remember each missive you speak of.

And I just have to say that you called so many things back on Pro X! I don't mind saying you were right. LOL Did you ever think you'd hear me say that? LMAO

 

[King]

Yay for in a few years when the only international athletes allowed to compete at worlds will be 17 i.e. open teams..I see how well this develops cheerleading internationally...NOT.

International teams can enter the club divisions.

 

[yojaehs]

International teams can enter the club divisions.

In addition, I'd like to add that this is the ONLY rule made that I 100% agree with. I still don't understand why 14,15,16 yr olds should be cheering with 20+ athletes. Yes, it might make things tough/tougher BUT they did walk the age up so that the current system kids are grandfathered in and allows for preparation.

 

[Rudags]

In addition, I'd like to add that this is the ONLY rule made that I 100% agree with. I still don't understand why 14,15,16 yr olds should be cheering with 20+ athletes. Yes, it might make things tough/tougher BUT they did walk the age up so that the current system kids are grandfathered in and allows for preparation.

My question: If it was SOOOO important to put this rule in effect without going through the proper channels.... Why change it. Don't get me wrong. I agree with this rule too and am glad its being grand fathered in - I just question that first release being presented with urgency!

 

[lucyemma]

International teams can enter the club divisions.

True, but this cuts out the athletes that are 18+ and honestly, with the lack of facilities for international teams with many training in school sports halls or renting out a gymnastic floor, the majority wouldn't stand a chance in this e.g. in large senior..Isn't the point of the international division to HELP international teams? Not cut them out of their own division

 

[yojaehs]

My question: If it was SOOOO important to put this rule in effect without going through the proper channels.... Why change it. Don't get me wrong. I agree with this rule too and am glad its being grand fathered in - I just question that first release being presented with urgency!

I think this is why the "Under review for 2013-2014" was placed under each rule. Basically, they will give us some back now and take the rest away next year. Just quieting down the riots for now. And taking away little at a time will raise less issues. This is why it is so important to dispute the process (which is what I have a much larger problem with).

 

[retiredl5cheer]

True, but this cuts out the athletes that are 18+ and honestly, with the lack of facilities for international teams with many training in school sports halls or renting out a gymnastic floor, the majority wouldn't stand a chance in this e.g. in large senior..Isn't the point of the international division to HELP international teams? Not cut them out of their own division

I think the international division was started to take international teams' weaknesses into account for a period of time. International teams are stepping it up and maybe it's time for them to prove that they can hang with the big dogs. I hope the international divisions aren't around forever because then Worlds is never truly an international competition. I would love to see the international teams compete in the club divisions along with everyone else.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I remember each missive you speak of.

And I just have to say that you called so many things back on Pro X! I don't mind saying you were right. LOL Did you ever think you'd hear me say that? LMAO

:jawdrop: I never ever thought I would hear you say that! I am taking a screen capture of this shimmy and post and framing it.

 

[mstealtoyou]

:jawdrop: I never ever thought I would hear you say that! I am taking a screen capture of this shimmy and post and framing it.

Enjoy your moment. You earned it!!! :chestbump:

 

[newcheerdad]

A straw man is a type of logical fallacy. "The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores another person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" "

So the actual position which was: It should be left up to coaches and athletes if and when said athlete is ready to compete level 5 skills, got turned into: There should just be no rules.

This makes it easy for people to agree with the USASF by making the alternative look ridiculous. "Well of course we can't just have no rules, so the USASF must be right"

I'd argue that the question was even narrower: what was the rationale for removing a specific set of level 5 tumbling skills? Couching the decision under the vague umbrella of "athlete safety", and then almost immediately compromising on that decision, opens the USASF up to questions about their motivation.

 

[lucyemma]

I think the international division was started to take international teams' weaknesses into account for a period of time. International teams are stepping it up and maybe it's time for them to prove that they can hang with the big dogs. I hope the international divisions aren't around forever because then Worlds is never truly an international competition. I would love to see the international teams compete in the club divisions along with everyone else.

The ages of international teams don't fit with club divisions though...it would be fantastic if teams over here could "hang with the big dogs" but the fact is, cheerleading hasn't been around long enough over here for athletes to develop skills. If the USASF feels like sending a few full size spring floors over, sending over a few tumbling coaches then wonderful. There are probably more athletes and teams in 1 state in the USA than there is in the whole of England. Infact, I'm pretty sure that CEA will have the same number of true level 5 athletes as the whole of the UK does. It isn't exactly full of level 5 athletes tumbling wise. Imagine having a high school team (because most allstar teams over here train with the same facilities that a US high school team would if not less) trying to compete with WCSS..it would be a joke and there would be people at worlds watching the international teams and asking "why on earth did they bother coming to worlds, they don't stand a chance". I don't see the point in a team paying $1000's per athlete and taking weeks out of school/college time to fly over to the USA to not even stand a chance at worlds. To give you an idea..the only 2 level 6 teams in the UK competed last year who have THE best athletes in the country as they train once per month..one team came 9th and 1 came about 15th/16th..it sort of puts where international teams are into perspective. International teams take what athletes they can get..whether they're 14 or 30 its who has the skills gets on the team. IMO it is too early to bring this in!

 

[retiredl5cheer]

lucyemma Fair enough. I see your point and it's a good one. I hope eventually they can phase international divisions out but maybe, as you say, now isn't the right time.

 

[Deleted member 1556]

I am also interested in imrichhowboutu comments. I enjoy his posts very much but was befuddled about his response to the the rules update. I completely understand the pressure he must feel as a representative of a large gym and perhaps that was why he responded in this manner. He has a lot more to lose than I do at my gym in expressing how I really feel. And actually as time has passed, I am more and more angry. I cannot get past the "theatrical movements" statement. I can't. What a homophobic statement. And if they put that out blatantly, what ELSE are they talking about?

He's not a representative, he's just an athlete at a large gym who posts on here. I am not a representative of Computer Screen Allstars (even though that's where I currently am cheering.. )