All-Star Punishments/sanctions

[CoachTamara]

The cheer world is not exactly good at keeping secrets... Someone spill.

 

[Underestimated]

Well....I'm starting to piece things together ill get to this sooner or later

 

[GreatWhite92]

I hate cryptic tweets.....

 

[CoachTamara]

While I wait for stuff to hit the fan and get the scoop, I'll bite and give my opinions on the following.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for the gym, team, coaches, athletes in these situations:

• Using an illegal (over/under age) athlete to obtain a bid: If discovered prior to worlds, the bid should be taken away and if they want to go to worlds-pay up (Can you even just pay your way to worlds? I'm out of the loop). Not allowed to get a bid elsewhere. If after worlds, strip them of the placement and cannot compete the next year.
• Using an illegal (over/under age) athlete to compete at worlds: Placement taken, no competing next year. For the entire gym, not just the team. I don't want to see a team cheat, get caught, kick some girls off for the next year and come back. Give me a break.
• Using an illegal substitution (already used max # or didn't have release) at worlds: See above.
• Using a crossover at worlds (cheer/cheer or dance/cheer): See above the above.

• Breaking ethics rules (recruiting at a competition, code of conduct, etc): This totally depends on the rule and what they did. Maybe go in front of an ethics board that can decide punishment. I just think it's really hard to regulate and can be a total mess.
• Substance abuse while competing: Is this serious?! But really, kick them off the team and contact parents. Geez kids.
• Substance abuse while coaching: This is actually something I think is common. If it can be proven, they should not be allowed to coach. A person with a coke habit should not be coaching kids in high risk situations where they can get hurt. I would be all for random drug testing of coaches and adult athletes BTW, but that's another discussion.
• Coaches disregard for General Safety rules (appropriate surfaces, skill progressions) Slippery slope here. Depends on the situation, but possibly a warning for first offense, fine for the second, etc. Maybe a situation with an ethics committee.

After reading this, I realize I probably seem like a heartless person that is out to punish everyone. But seriously, it's not that hard to NOT cheat.

In other news, how realistic is it that USASF or Varsity will ever start an ethics committee used for reporting and handing out sanctions? I understand this is a time consuming and expensive, people aren't objective, blah blah blah. No coaches involved AT ALL. Details aside, is this a focus or has it been discussed by those that are more important in the industry? (I'm lookin' at you ASCheerMan...)

 

[NEliteSteven]

joytomylifex hahaha But that person with a coke problem probably has a sped up reaction time. It's not called speed for no reason. :-D

 

[ASCheerMan]

In other news, how realistic is it that USASF or Varsity will ever start an ethics committee used for reporting and handing out sanctions? I understand this is a time consuming and expensive, people aren't objective, blah blah blah. No coaches involved AT ALL. Details aside, is this a focus or has it been discussed by those that are more important in the industry? (I'm lookin' at you ASCheerMan...)

This type of program is easier for the USASF to adopt because they are the governing body. NCA or Varsity could set rules, but we don't govern anything except for our events. So our scope of power and influence w/these types of issues is limited to our actual competitions. Our ethics committee is called: disqualification. We reserve the right at any of our events to penalize teams who violatesuch rules as level safety rules (with safety deductions), compete illegally in Small Gym divisions (disqualification) or represent themselves with such a poor level of professionalism ( banned from NCA for one year)year).
Again, since Varsity and all of our event producing brands aren't in a osition to govern the entire industry, we may still decide who we refuse to do business with and who/when we choose to research other alternatives.
The USASF has two different committees that address these concerns. When a USASF Coach is accused of being in violation of their Professional Code, anyone in the industry has the right to bring forth a case to be heard by the USASF Disciplinary Committee. This committee is made up of primarily coaches from around the country. They will review the case and associated Gym Owner, in addtiion to the facts, the notes taken and anything else relevant before making a decision and a suggested penalty for the defendant (in the event that the Coach in question is found guilty). The USASF Board of Directors reviews the findings of the Disciplinary Committee, contributes their own 2 cents, and develops the official ruling and (when applicable) a penalty fr the Gym Owner and Coach.

Event Producers have a similar model. They have a committee of Peers called the Compliance Committee. This committee review any charges brought up against an Event Producer for violating the USASF standards for sanctioning The Compliance Committee will determine a verdict and a suggested penalty, which is then taken to the USASF Board for final decisions and verdict.

 

[Bystander]

Are the committees looking at any violations right now??

 

[CoachTamara]

The USASF has two different committees that address these concerns. When a USASF Coach is accused of being in violation of their Professional Code, anyone in the industry has the right to bring forth a case to be heard by the USASF Disciplinary Committee. This committee is made up of primarily coaches from around the country. They will review the case and associated Gym Owner, in addtiion to the facts, the notes taken and anything else relevant before making a decision and a suggested penalty for the defendant (in the event that the Coach in question is found guilty). The USASF Board of Directors reviews the findings of the Disciplinary Committee, contributes their own 2 cents, and develops the official ruling and (when applicable) a penalty fr the Gym Owner and Coach.

I thought this was the case, but I also thought that due to the nature of the committee and everyone being all over the country that this rarely happened. I know it was supposed to be put online, but there were only a couple on there and they were old.
Personally, I don't think coaches should be punishing other coaches. Seems like a big conflict if people in charge are also those that could be breaking the rules. I would have to assume a committee with non-biased (at least non-biased in the form of being a current coach/owner) would be much more appealing for those that are looking at making a claim.
But, this is a whole other discussion... But one that I think needs to happen to move forward as a sport.

 

[ASCheerMan]

On the flipside, I would want to be tried by a group of people who empathized with my position and the environment I work in. Just like a jury is made up of other tax paying citizens.

Individuals with a personal relationship or a specifically competitive relationship with the defendant are recused from the committee on a case-by-case basis.

 

[ASCheerMan]

Are the committees looking at any violations right now??

All work done by these committees is kept confidential (in the spirit of protecting the innocent and everyone involved). One complete findings are posted to the USASF website.

 

[CoachTamara]

On the flipside, I would want to be tried by a group of people who empathized with my position and the environment I work in. Just like a jury is made up of other tax paying citizens.

Individuals with a personal relationship or a specifically competitive relationship with the defendant are recused from the committee on a case-by-case basis.

Would you want someone that is currently involved in the industry that might be your competition over someone that was formerly involved (used to be a coach, retired from coaching to be on the ethics committee)? I agree with someone understanding the cheer coach mentality, but cheer is a small family and things can get ugly quick.

 

[ASCheerMan]

Would you want someone that is currently involved in the industry that might be your competition over someone that was formerly involved (used to be a coach, retired from coaching to be on the ethics committee)? I agree with someone understanding the cheer coach mentality, but cheer is a small family and things can get ugly quick.

If I were a coach of an all star team in Dallas, there may be another coach from a rival local gym or coach from our main competition at Worlds that would make me uncomfortable, but there are thousands of coaches from the state of California or Oregon or New York (or wherever) that have no reason to unfairly prosecute me during an investigation. And this pool of peers has a vested interest in the current all star world and doesn't bring with them the prejudices regarding 'the way things used to be.'

 

[ChoreographyInTheBack]

The cheer world is not exactly good at keeping secrets... Someone spill.

I'm good at keeping secrets.. I know what it is. It will get out eventually, but it's a private matter and doesn't need to be exposed at the moment.

 

[CheerBank]

I was talking to some people this past week about breaking the rules, and everyone seems to have a different idea of what an appropriate punishment is for breaking them.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for the gym, team, coaches, athletes in these situations:

• Using an illegal (over/under age) athlete to obtain a bid If discovered after bid awarded, bid stripped and team not allowed to compete at competition for which bid was awarded; Gym and team name released to public on competition website
• Using an illegal (over/under age) athlete to compete at worlds Gym not allowed to compete at Worlds following year with any team; Gym and team name released to public on Worlds website
• Using an illegal substitution (already used max # or didn't have release) at worlds Same as second response
• Using a crossover at worlds (cheer/cheer or dance/cheer) Same as second response

• Breaking ethics rules (recruiting at a competition, code of conduct, etc) Coach and gym fined a predetermined amount for particular transgression; coach and gym name released to public on competition website
• Substance abuse while competing Suspension for remainder of season; up to individual gym to allow athlete to return following season
• Substance abuse while coaching Suspension for one year from coaching in any capacity; predetermined fine paid to governing cheer body
• Coaches disregard for General Safety rules (appropriate surfaces, skill progressions) First transgression - warning; further transgressions result in a predetermined fine and possible suspension from future competitions depending on what the rule was broken

I think one of the most important things is that teams who break rules by using illegal athletes in any capacity should be outed to the public by the EP who finds them in violation of the rules. There should be a way to look up if anyone was disqualified at a competition and for what reason.
Additionally I find it very troubling that the USASF will only ban a team at Worlds from competing in the same division the following year from which it was disqualified the previous year. If a Small All Girl team was dq'd for having an athlete under age in 2012 for example, that gym could still earn a bid and compete at Worlds in any division except SAG, which I think is ridiculous. Imho that gym should not be allowed back at Worlds at all in any division in 2013, and their name should be released by the USASF to the public.

 

[Underestimated]

I'm good at keeping secrets.. I know what it is. It will get out eventually, but it's a private matter and doesn't need to be exposed at the moment.

OH but it will myfriend..... very, very, very, very, very, very ,very soon!!!