All-Star Raw Scores

[Beans100]

Question for judges!

How difficult is it to correctly count the number of skills that are thrown in a routine, especially the higher levels and on large team where there are a lot of skills being thrown at once?
Do you find that there are regularly disputes from coaches who feel they were misjudged?

 

[Boughetto]

Question for judges!

How difficult is it to correctly count the number of skills that are thrown in a routine, especially the higher levels and on large team where there are a lot of skills being thrown at once?
Do you find that there are regularly disputes from coaches who feel they were misjudged?

Good question. I've wondered the same thing especially with large teams when they tumble as a group compared to individual passes which are easier to count. How can they keep up with counting if 28 people threw a tuck compared to if 23 threw a tuck and the other 5 faked it? Do they record each routine and review them?

Also, does the same athlete throwing multiple specialty passes during the routine count as 1 pass or does each pass count when tabulating high/low range of specialty tumbling passes.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

Question for judges!

How difficult is it to correctly count the number of skills that are thrown in a routine, especially the higher levels and on large team where there are a lot of skills being thrown at once?
Do you find that there are regularly disputes from coaches who feel they were misjudged?

Not an answer, but an additional question. Do you ever go back to review teams in video to see how accurately you scored teams?

 

[Jessica Lynn]

What she is saying is true.... 9/10 your difficulty score will probably stay the same unless you change or omit something. I think what she means by they dont judge difficulty day 2 .. as in .. their not assessing a new score so to speak .. they are simply checking off what you did on the script sheet day one to see if it matches up with you did day 2. and if you increase difficulty .. it will be reflected in the score.. but i dont think they're coming up with a total new score each day.

Yes, thank you, my apologies, I definitely didn't word that correctly. I just mean they will carry your difficulty score over to day 2. If you fall all over the place day 1 and hit day 2 then yes it will go up. The Expo we go to asks that we submit a form if there will be a change in skills for day 2 in order to have them reasses the skills you have in your routine, otherwise, they don't, they just make sure it's all the same and check your flyer ratios. But unless you fall all over the mat and they cannot assess you, generally your score will remain what it is day 1.

 

[Jessica Lynn]

Difficulty is judged on day 2. If day 1 has missed skills (Example, 5 stunt groups and 3 fall on day 1) difficulty could go up on day 2 b/c they then will receive credit for the skills performed, in addition, if a team misses skills day 2 difficulty can go down (Same analogy). In most events, judges are watching to be sure that nothing has changed with the skills for the difficulty scores

My apologies, I didn't word that correctly. I didn't mean they ignore it and don't judge it at all, I just mean they will carry your difficulty score over to day 2 and not rejudge it but yes make sure it's all the same. For example, if day 1 you have 5 groups and 1 falls.. that will not be reflected in your difficulty as most of your team is still performing the skill. You need most of the team to perform the skills to get into the range and then the difficulty of those skills performed is what shifts you up in that range you're in. So if all of them hit day 2 your difficulty score will still remain the same but your deductions, overall impression and technique may go up.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

My apologies, I didn't word that correctly. I didn't mean they ignore it and don't judge it at all, I just mean they will carry your difficulty score over to day 2 and not rejudge it but yes make sure it's all the same. For example, if day 1 you have 5 groups and 1 falls.. that will not be reflected in your difficulty as most of your team is still performing the skill. You need most of the team to perform the skills to get into the range and then the difficulty of those skills performed is what shifts you up in that range you're in. So if all of them hit day 2 your difficulty score will still remain the same but your deductions, overall impression and technique may go up. Or at least that's the way I've understood it and have had it explained to me.

If everything done is the same, then yes, it will stay the same, or if one more does it and it's most it may not change, but it can change and it's not locked in.

 

[Jessica Lynn]

Good question. I've wondered the same thing especially with large teams when they tumble as a group compared to individual passes which are easier to count. How can they keep up with counting if 28 people threw a tuck compared to if 23 threw a tuck and the other 5 faked it? Do they record each routine and review them?

Also, does the same athlete throwing multiple specialty passes during the routine count as 1 pass or does each pass count when tabulating high/low range of specialty tumbling passes.

Most competitions require video playback for whatever purposes judges need and they tend to use them for counting. As for tumbling, there are different scoring ranges for standing tumbling and part of those ranges is based on the participation percentage (majority/most etc.) that performs a tumbling pass. Keep in mind, performing the participation percentage of level appropriate passes listed gets you into a range, it does not guaruntee a specific score within the range. The highest range requires a synchronized pass by most of the team. So 75% of your athletes must perform the pass at once. So you could have one athlete doing standing tumbling passes through the routine and they will accumulate but you wont get in the highest range. For running tumbling, like standing, the ranges dictate the participation percentage (majority/most etc) of level appropriate passes required to be performed to get into any particular scoring range. The number of passes required for any given range depends on the number of athletes on your team. Synchronizing passes is not required for running tumbling, so yes one athlete could, in theory, run around throwing passes and still get you in the highest range. However, synchronized passes are more difficult and may affect your score within your range. As a coach you will need to decide if synchronizing passes make the most sense for your team. They have the potential to boost your difficulty score, however, if your synchronized passes are not timed well, you may end up with a lower score in technique and not get credit for the synchronization.

 

[Teacher Mom]

Most competitions require video playback for whatever purposes judges need and they tend to use them for counting. As for tumbling, there are different scoring ranges for standing tumbling and part of those ranges is based on the participation percentage (majority/most etc.) that performs a tumbling pass. Keep in mind, performing the participation percentage of level appropriate passes listed gets you into a range, it does not guaruntee a specific score within the range. The highest range requires a synchronized pass by most of the team. So 75% of your athletes must perform the pass at once. So you could have one athlete doing standing tumbling passes through the routine and they will accumulate but you wont get in the highest range. For running tumbling, like standing, the ranges dictate the participation percentage (majority/most etc) of level appropriate passes required to be performed to get into any particular scoring range. The number of passes required for any given range depends on the number of athletes on your team. Synchronizing passes is not required for running tumbling, so yes one athlete could, in theory, run around throwing passes and still get you in the highest range. However, synchronized passes are more difficult and may affect your score within your range. As a coach you will need to decide if synchronizing passes make the most sense for your team. They have the potential to boost your difficulty score, however, if your synchronized passes are not timed well, you may end up with a lower score in technique and not get credit for the synchronization.

I think it must be really hard to tell if it is actually the same athlete performing the passes unless you have video and only watch the tumbler.
All I know is I couldn't be a judge. I watch some teams and think they have a lot of, say standing fulls, and then I rewatch in slowmotion and see every other person is doing a standing full and in between are standing tucks. I could never do it and God bless those who do.

 

[mollymags]

Good question. I've wondered the same thing especially with large teams when they tumble as a group compared to individual passes which are easier to count. How can they keep up with counting if 28 people threw a tuck compared to if 23 threw a tuck and the other 5 faked it? Do they record each routine and review them?

Also, does the same athlete throwing multiple specialty passes during the routine count as 1 pass or does each pass count when tabulating high/low range of specialty tumbling passes.

I judge and when I do safety/deductions, I am always sat next to a TV so I can rewind and pause to confirm deductions or legalities. Most of the other judges bring iPads with them and video every routine with an app that allows them to slow down the video so they can use that to review how many skills were completed.

 

[Boughetto]

All I know is I couldn't be a judge. I watch some teams and think they have a lot of, say standing fulls, and then I rewatch in slowmotion and see every other person is doing a standing full and in between are standing tucks. I could never do it and God bless those who do.

Yes,I've noticed this as well when I'm like, "GEEZ they have 20 standing fulls" but then I pause the video when the athletes are mid jump and then I can see oh, wait those are standing fulls and tucks!! hahahah very smart choreography for the coaches if they can do such an awesome visualizing job that makes it appear as such.

 

[Boughetto]

I judge and when I do safety/deductions, I am always sat next to a TV so I can rewind and pause to confirm deductions or legalities. Most of the other judges bring iPads with them and video every routine with an app that allows them to slow down the video so they can use that to review how many skills were completed.

Thanks for the response! This make a lot of sense especially for those super fast moving routines.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I judge and when I do safety/deductions, I am always sat next to a TV so I can rewind and pause to confirm deductions or legalities. Most of the other judges bring iPads with them and video every routine with an app that allows them to slow down the video so they can use that to review how many skills were completed.

With everything video review is such a help, I don't depend on it, but at times, it's nice to be able to re-count if needed and also confirm skills on the script sheets.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Where I live we video review if there's questions about number of skills. It's been really helpful, especially when teams have 1 pass over their 75%. We've also used it when skills are questionable on the legality side at lower levels.

I generally only judge building skills, and those are much simpler to count. The idea of judging jumps and tumbling at something like NCA terrifies me

 

[DaniV]

At all of the Varsity competitions I've been to they are have explicitly made it clear that they are no longer offering the "routine change" request form. The reason given was that it was supposed to be for the rare change if you were out of range for a certain aspect of the routine or changing something due to a legality issue. However they were seeing it being abused and too many people were filling them out with a completely different routine for day 2 and it was slowing things down. Or something along those lines.

 

[NJ Coach]

At all of the Varsity competitions I've been to they are have explicitly made it clear that they are no longer offering the "routine change" request form. The reason given was that it was supposed to be for the rare change if you were out of range for a certain aspect of the routine or changing something due to a legality issue. However they were seeing it being abused and too many people were filling them out with a completely different routine for day 2 and it was slowing things down. Or something along those lines.

We've used the form this season, at Varsity events. I think we used it in January...