All-Star Rebel Takes On Goliath

[catlady]

Amusing analogy since VB is now building at Disney World.
How wonderful for you that you have not experienced any backlash but that doesn't mean it did not or does not exist.

Again, not meaning to be argumentative but, what is this "thing" that exists that isn't being fought in court? I get that people don't like Varsity but, to continually state they are a monopoly or involved in predatory business practice without providing any source, numbers or situations is hard for the OCD, Google prone and needs to have proof to believe types like me. I don't have to be right, I am just looking for something, anything, that actually states from a reliable source that they are a monopoly or involved in predatory business practices.

 

[cheer25mom]

Again, not meaning to be argumentative but, what is this "thing" that exists that isn't being fought in court? I get that people don't like Varsity but, to continually state they are a monopoly or involved in predatory business practice without providing any source, numbers or situations is hard for the OCD, Google prone and needs to have proof to believe types like me. I don't have to be right, I am just looking for something, anything, that actually states from a reliable source that they are a monopoly or involved in predatory business practices.

I think the issue is that people are using the term "monopoly" in a practical sense, not in a legal sense. In a practical sense, Varsity has a monopoly on the market in that is is almost impossible to compete at the highest levels without giving Varsity a large chunk of your budget. It may not fit the legal definition of a monopoly, but it fits the practical definition.

 

[CoachTamara]

Gym owners experience and see things go on all the time that they hint at, but will not "prove". Don't bite of your nose to spite your face-they still have to attend Varsity competitions and play the game.

 

[catlady]

I think the issue is that people are using the term "monopoly" in a practical sense, not in a legal sense. In a practical sense, Varsity has a monopoly on the market in that is is almost impossible to compete at the highest levels without giving Varsity a large chunk of your budget. It may not fit the legal definition of a monopoly, but it fits the practical definition.

Well, in the words of Sheldon Cooper, "What kind of hippy nonsense is that?" I love the boards but, sometimes you all really make my head hurt. Off to take my meds.

ETA: @CoachTamara I guess I look at Varsity comps the same way I look at any other sport where there is a league that leads to a final destination. And, giggling because, "games" is another one of those "hurt my brain" words for those of us that deal with specifics.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Well, in the words of Sheldon Cooper, "What kind of hippy nonsense is that?" I love the boards but, sometimes you all really make my head hurt. Off to take my meds.

ETA: @CoachTamara I guess I look at Varsity comps the same way I look at any other sport where there is a league that leads to a final destination. And, giggling because, "games" is another one of those "hurt my brain" words for those of us that deal with specifics.

I long ago realized that to enjoy my CPs time in this sport, I had to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
I think the "specifics" you look for will not be divulged because that would be "biting the hand that feeds you" so to speak.
Look... we, as the end customer (cheerleaders and families), really have no say. The gyms/schools are the ones who Varsity courts with rebates etc. Are those discounts passed on to the end customer (I can tell you they never were in the gyms we were at). Sure people can throw out "you can choose to go to another gym". Well, yeah, except in many areas of the country there aren't a multitude of options. So just keep your eye on what you are paying year over year in terms of uniforms/comp fees/ practice gear etc. Hey, add in those STP hotels too. Again, ultimately, we have to go where the gym says we go to compete and buy the uniform they say we have to buy so it isn't a truly competitive marketplace for us (as the ultimate consumer of the cheer product) anyway.

 

[catlady]

@MissCongeniality I have no problems with people disagreeing or disliking something but, I came to these boards to learn about cheer and the industry. When people start throwing out legal terminology and accusations that goes beyond disagreeing and disliking, "proof" should always be a requirement. As far as rebates, anyone that has been a buyer, vendor, or salesperson will tell you rebates are just common practice in business. The vendor provides the money to the buyer and sometimes it is used as a "spiff" to the salesperson, sometimes it is given to the consumer as a "discount or rebate", sometimes it is used as "markdown money" to help out profit margin but, it isn't shady practice. I don't know a lot about cheer and will never claim to but, I do have many years of corporate executive experience.

"Keep an eye on what I'm spending?" Come on now, I'm the OCD detail person, remember? I can tell you to the penny what we spend on gym fees, coaches fees, privates, choreography, music, uniform, warm ups, shoes, bows, socks, team tees, sports bras, spanks, comp fees, entrance fees, hotel, airfare, travel gas, travel food, tips, parking, team bonding, banquets, and coaches birthdays, Christmas, and end of year gifts each year. Which is exactly why when people start in on "How much we give to Varsity" and "stay to play" I sit there and shake my head. Our spending is in line with what I would expect to pay based on talking to other people in travel sports. I understand and want to spend less but, using vague terms such as "shady", "games", "if you only knew", or legal terms such as "monopoly" or "anti trust" as terms of frustration and without any supporting information only undermines the credibility of what our kids love to do.

 

[quitthedrama]

sometimes you all really make my head hurt.

the irony.......

 

[MissCongeniality]

@MissCongeniality I have no problems with people disagreeing or disliking something but, I came to these boards to learn about cheer and the industry. When people start throwing out legal terminology and accusations that goes beyond disagreeing and disliking, "proof" should always be a requirement. As far as rebates, anyone that has been a buyer, vendor, or salesperson will tell you rebates are just common practice in business. The vendor provides the money to the buyer and sometimes it is used as a "spiff" to the salesperson, sometimes it is given to the consumer as a "discount or rebate", sometimes it is used as "markdown money" to help out profit margin but, it isn't shady practice. I don't know a lot about cheer and will never claim to but, I do have many years of corporate executive experience.

"Keep an eye on what I'm spending?" Come on now, I'm the OCD detail person, remember? I can tell you to the penny what we spend on gym fees, coaches fees, privates, choreography, music, uniform, warm ups, shoes, bows, socks, team tees, sports bras, spanks, comp fees, entrance fees, hotel, airfare, travel gas, travel food, tips, parking, team bonding, banquets, and coaches birthdays, Christmas, and end of year gifts each year. Which is exactly why when people start in on "How much we give to Varsity" and "stay to play" I sit there and shake my head. Our spending is in line with what I would expect to pay based on talking to other people in travel sports. I understand and want to spend less but, using vague terms such as "shady", "games", "if you only knew", or legal terms such as "monopoly" or "anti trust" as terms of frustration and without any supporting information only undermines the credibility of what our kids love to do.

@catlady I used your post as a jumping off point nothing more. It was in no way focused on you or even intended to be about you.
I work in a legal department so trust me...I get it. I actually know a lot of others on here get it too.

 

[catlady]

@MissCongeniality I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your post. My concerns aren't for those of us that have been around and know better, my concern is more for those that come to this board looking to find out more about cheer and the industry.

ETA: @quitthedrama Point taken and I'll bow out.

 

[AngelsMum24]

I see the "poor quality" on the other side of the coin. Cp can get a full season out of nfinitys but wore 2-3 pair of varsity shoes a season for the 2 years we used them.

We have had the opposite experience.

 

[cheer25mom]

We have had the opposite experience.

Which shoes? We get a full season form nfinity evolutions, but went through 2-3 pair of varsity last pass a season. She would wear through the soles.


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[AngelsMum24]

Which shoes? We get a full season form nfinity evolutions, but went through 2-3 pair of varsity last pass a season. She would wear through the soles.


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The Varsity Spirit II. They stayed white, easy to just wipe down and she could still wear them if they fit. LOL

 

[cheer25mom]

The Varsity Spirit II. They stayed white, easy to just wipe down and she could still wear them if they fit. LOL

Ahhh those didn't fit CP well, and she said the leather was "too hot"


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[CookieMomster]

It's beyond apparel. Varsity has their fingers and influences everything cheer related. They are cheer! They've either funded or are part of running almost every governing board for cheer. (see links below). No other company or organization has the sort of reach. They are the ICU (International Cheer Union). What other sport is run by a for-profit body (that is also trying to get into the Olympics)? They have almost majority rule on the USASF BOG (board of governors), and cheer safety committees. They dictate the activity, policies, and rulings. You can't tell me that isn't a conflict of interest. Of course, they're going to rule in their best interest. They're also one of the reasons cheer isn't classified as a sport (see link 4th paragraph). If that were to happen they would lose their empire and have to play by sport rules and sell off some of their division because of a conflict of interest.

They even provide the insurance coverage required for cheer.

All one has to do it go onto their main website and scroll down to the bottom to see the subsidiaries of Varsity including camps, competitions, service companies and more.

You can't tell me that with their 1.2 billion empire they don't run and have a monopoly on cheer?!?

Out of 18 spots on the USASF board - 7 are held by Varsity and Varsity divisions. USASF Board Listing

AACCA is Varsity and shares the very same mailing address.

ICU (Internatioanl Cheer Union) is Varsity. Their contact person Sheila Noon is listed for both Varsity PR and also ICU contact lists. Varsity Link ICU Link

USA Cheer & Varsity have the exact same mailing address! USA Cheer used to be headed up by Varsity VP Bill Seely.

STUNT - was created by Varsity

The list goes on and on. No wonder it'll never be a sport. Cheer is a business - an industry.

ETA: Every fact is hyperlinked with a source. Oh, and...Baazinga!

 

[RichGirl Bows]

Predatory business practice are targeting a consumer or business weakness and exploiting it for personal gain. While some will quickly say, "Yes, that's Varsity!", if you read the examples of predatory business practices they are more in lines of targeting individuals and businesses that are struggling financially and credit wise, and take advantage of those situations. Charging $25-30 for an event, receiving rebates for filling up most of the hotels in the city, offering gyms sponsorships for using their product and $5 Dipping Dots, unfortunately, don't qualify.

. What about college nationals. If you look at their eligibility section online, it states you may not attend any other event promoted as a national/international championship. They already dominate the college national scene, this eligibility requirement seems kind of exploitive/predatory to me and sets up a barrier to entry for a competitor that might want to start a college national.