All-Star Sandbagging Karma

[SmileCat]

I can't completely disagree with this because sometimes there's a few kids who aren't full "world team capable" yet but they have Level 5 skills... creating a Level 5 Restricted team for them to be on and master their skills makes sense even if it does mean pulling other level 5 athletes onto it. I don't believe it is okay if the team is doing it to win but I do think it is okay to give those kids a team to actually work on skills and hopefully move up to the next level.

Oh I agree with the method you're talking about, but let's say there's a small restricted team and a medium coed team. Out of the 30 of the medium coed team, 13-15 of them are on the restricted team. Leaving only 5-7 true restricted level 5 athletes.


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[xomckenzieee]

Oh I agree with the method you're talking about, but let's say there's a small restricted team and a medium coed team. Out of the 30 of the medium coed team, 13-15 of them are on the restricted team. Leaving only 5-7 true restricted level 5 athletes.


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See that's a tough call then. It's so hard because there really isn't a set standard of what is right or wrong for a certain program.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Beware- However, coaches and gym owners, who allow such a travesty by putting level 5 athletes on level 2 teams should be shamed out of business, when this knowledge had been revealed and be banned from competing at Worlds. NCAs, UCAs, Cheersport and any reputable competitions for 2 seasons and given the Milli-Vanilli style treatment - publicly stripped and forced to publicly give up those jackets and all trinkets gained by their cheating, better yet, I also take a 3 page essay from each athletes and the organization on the topic - 'What lesson I learned by cheating' and placed these letters as testimonials on the team's website... (We need to be harsher on these cheaters, so they will learn their lesson and stop, NOW!) Just Saying!

You can debate the ethics (and that's been done in multiple threads) but you can't debate legality. Until rule changes occur there's nothing illegal or cheating about this practice.


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[12stepCheermom]

Most of my kids that have fulls can't even execute a back walkover! Lol Seriously- they've been cheering before USASF made levels and divisions so they started off with learning backhandsprings. They would definitely lose if I put them on level 1 to win bids! Lol


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Yup! My carpool kid competed at so you think you can tumble and his current pass is a 1.5 through to whip double.

But if you want quality entertainment, ask that boy to do a back walkover

Little 5 year old tinys beat the socks off him in those and he's an NCA and CHEERSPORT champ that's making his 4th trip to Worlds this year.


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[SheCheers]

Most of my kids that have fulls can't even execute a back walkover! Lol Seriously- they've been cheering before USASF made levels and divisions so they started off with learning backhandsprings. They would definitely lose if I put them on level 1 to win bids! Lol


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My cp started with mini 1 and a BWO and still can't do it anymore. She probably went a good 2-3 years without doing one and lost it.


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[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Yup! My carpool kid competed at so you think you can tumble and his current pass is a 1.5 through to whip double.

But if you want quality entertainment, ask that boy to do a back walkover

Little 5 year old tinys beat the socks off him in those and he's an NCA and CHEERSPORT champ that's making his 4th trip to Worlds this year.

This is SO TRUE.

I've taught privates to girls who were working fulls and doubles for college.

Put a gun to their heads and ask them to BWO, they'd be DEAD.

It's hilarious.

This is why I'm big with my little kids on making sure they're good with walkovers before we BHS.

 

[cheermomforever]

I totally agree with your post,,, I might be called a softy because I have not experience firsthand athletes being moved down a level, but I heard of athletes, who were moved down a level in order to be competitive on the floor... Believe me, those athletes did not seemed to be very happy about it and were not screaming about jackets, they were upset, disappointed and most of those kids felt embarrassed... So sometimes, like what someone mentioned in a prior post... we have athletes, who worked hard before tryouts to make a team and take all kind of privates, open gym and tumbling classes -- but once they make the sought after dream team stopped working or do not consistently work the skills that got them placed on the team... The coaches, who put these teams together are going by the athletes they selected after tryouts and overshoot their expectations and hope that this team can get even better during the summer months and sadly it does not happened...Btw, If only 25% of team can consistently perform the skills requirements for that level, should they remained in that level because the coaches over estimated during the summer months their team potential, I think not!
Beware- However, coaches and gym owners, who allow such a travesty by putting level 5 athletes on level 2 teams should be shamed out of business, when this knowledge had been revealed and be banned from competing at Worlds. NCAs, UCAs, Cheersport and any reputable competitions for 2 seasons and given the Milli-Vanilli style treatment - publicly stripped and forced to publicly give up those jackets gained by their cheating, better yet, I also take a 3 page essay from each athletes and the organization on the topic - 'What lesson I learned by cheating' and placed these letters as testimonials on the team's website... (We need to be harsher on these cheaters, so they will learn their lesson and stop, NOW!) Just Saying!

Until it is a rule about how many athletes or/ and levels can crossovers, there r coaches who r out there for the "win" no matter what needs to b done and it sucks for the gym who are truly that level because of what athletes they have. At a comp with our sr 2 team athlete this year, the team against us -some of them wore their level 5 uniforms , so they did not try to hide it.


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[xtremeteal4life]

1. [QUOTE="12stepCheermom, post: 868542,]I honestly think a lv5 competing lv1 would be tragic for that very reason. You can ask Arabian through to whip doubles to tumble that pass all day, but ask for a back walkover and you've totally asked the impossible with most of the kids I know...ESP boys with no shoulder and back flexibility.

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I think they get used to it if they start younger. I only remember one level 5 athlete who had a difficult time not throwing a bhs on a mini level one routine.[/QUOTE]


Oh lord I give up! Sorry I'm having issues posting w/my tablet you guys. Operator error FTL

 

[twincheermom]

We saw this team also and were shocked and annoyed. Girls from our gym heard this team was re-created solely as a way to get a bid to the summit. It was poetic justice that they came in third.


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[Pebbles49]

Until it is a rule about how many athletes or/ and levels can crossovers, there r coaches who r out there for the "win" no matter what needs to b done and it sucks for the gym who are truly that level because of what athletes they have. At a comp with our sr 2 team athlete this year, the team against us -some of them wore their level 5 uniforms , so they did not try to hide it.

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My daughter came from the world of gymnastics first, if an elite athlete step on the mat at a lower level they and the gym will be laughed out of the competition and this gym will be shamed and probably need to change their name in order to resurface again,,, but this act of competing below your level is not regarded as cheating in cheerleading...I think the problem is not the rule book, we as the cheerleading public acknowledge and regard these acts as cheating, but we are all sitting by waiting for Moses to bring the law down from Mount Sinai to state the most obvious-- If these cheerleading level 5 athletes are prancing around with those uniforms stating that they are level 5 athletes, how can this not be regarded as not cheating....I think the public have more power than what we are given ourselves...Frankly, if we are not willing to speak out about this, it is going to continue to happen, over and over.. I am so tired of reading about a certain "well known" gym is cheating, but no one is willing to call these gyms by name, so they can play equally, if the level 5 athletes want to compete with level 2 athletes, lets put some handicaps in place for the level 2 athletes....maybe spot them 15 points before they start...Lol
Furthermore,my knowledge of law, if you calling someone out for cheating,,,the cheater cannot sue you for slander or defamation if these allegations are the truth...
Just saying!


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[cheermomforever]

My daughter came from the world of gymnastics first, if an elite athlete step on the mat at a lower level they and the gym will be laughed out of the competition and this gym will be shamed and probably need to change their name in order to resurface again,,, but this act of competing below your level is not regarded as cheating in cheerleading...I think the problem is not the rule book, we as the cheerleading public acknowledge and regard these acts as cheating, but we are all sitting by waiting for Moses to bring the law down from Mount Sinai to state the most obvious-- If these cheerleading level 5 athletes are prancing around with those uniforms stating that they are level 5 athletes, how can this not be regarded as not cheating....I think the public have more power than what we are given ourselves...Frankly, if we are not willing to speak out about this, it is going to continue to happen, over and over.. I am so tired of reading about a certain "well known" gym is cheating, but no one is willing to call these gyms by name, so they can play equally, if the level 5 athletes want to compete with level 2 athletes, lets put some handicaps in place for the level 2 athletes....maybe spot them 15 points before they start...Lol
Furthermore,my knowledge of law, if you calling someone out for cheating,,,the cheater cannot sue you for slander or defamation if these allegations are the truth...
Just saying!

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[/QUOTE]



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[cheermomforever]

Unfortunately nothing can be done about "on purpose to win" sandbagging until the rules change as it is not "illegal"


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[Ld3319]

With it being understood that crossover/sandbagging is not against the rules for a few athletes here and there. Injuries are understood as well as members who have quit etc. But when a gym forms teams with 30-50% crossovers! I feel it is all about the "WIN". It burns me when I see this gym is amazing at all levels.... It takes me everything I got to not just lay it out there.


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[Tator tots]

Cheerleading allows you to "cheat". You can flip from one team to another, no matter your skill level and you can be on multiple teams within one gym. There are level 1 athletes on level 5 teams, why can't it be the other way, level 5 on a 2? (not saying I agree with this, 1 to 5 or 5 to 2). Until they make rules to stop this and actually enforce them, it will continue. If you don't have enough athletes to field a team, maybe you shouldn't have that team. I understand small gyms struggle and have to use crossovers, large gyms "spread the wealth" and make them look even better then they truly are but I find that deceiving in itself. If we want it to be considered a sport.....it should be treated as one.

 

[Pebbles49]

Cheerleading allows you to "cheat". You can flip from one team to another, no matter your skill level and you can be on multiple teams within one gym. There are level 1 athletes on level 5 teams, why can't it be the other way, level 5 on a 2? (not saying I agree with this, 1 to 5 or 5 to 2). Until they make rules to stop this and actually enforce them, it will continue. If you don't have enough athletes to field a team, maybe you shouldn't have that team. I understand small gyms struggle and have to use crossovers, large gyms "spread the wealth" and make them look even better then they truly are but I find that deceiving in itself. If we want it to be considered a sport.....it should be treated as one.

Wow, I agree with everything you wrote and all I can add is PREACH!! I think as spectators, many of us are so passive aggressive... On the one hand, we complain about the cheating, but we are waiting for someone else to make a ruling to stop it..... I think we collectively can do something about it... For example, if you know that level5 athletes are accepting awards, banners and trophies for a level 2,,, why should we be clapping and hooting and hollering...we collectively, should be silent or hissing/booing... Mind you, we are not booing the athletes themselves, but the fact they can cheat another group who worked hard and played by the rules....Like I said earlier, if level 4-5 athletes are used to crossover into a lower level, that lower level team should be spotted maybe 3 or 4 points for each level5 or level 4 athlete crossing down to level 1 or level 2, this I think will equalized everything and cut down on teams sandbagging,,,there is no incentive left in doing this if they have to pony up points...