All-Star Special Treatment From Ep's & Vendors

[CheerBank]

We simply have different perspectives on what the monthly tuition check represents.

While you are at it, go ahead and get the discussion going about who should end up with prize money a team or program wins. I am going to guess that our opinions differ on that as well.

Well since you asked....imho it goes back to the program. The program made the team successful. You may have talented athletes on the team but without the program as a whole, they are not going to be successful. Unless of course Susie is on the team in which case her mom gets the prize money .

How do you handle when a team wins a fully paid bid to a competition when some or all of the competition fee has already been factored into your monthly fee? A parent has paid money for the competition that was not necessary to be paid. Do you refund that money or do you throw that back into the gym? Or have you assumed they are going to earn that fully paid bid based on past performance and never factor those costs in to begin with?

 

[CheerBank]

Since the car analogy failed, let's go with a restaurant.

When you get a meal from a restaurant do you get a breakdown of how much the meat cost, how much the seasoning cost, the staff costs for unloading the delivery truck and cooking it. You just know that it costs 18.99 and you aren't concerned about what kind of markup or profit that the owner. You just know that it tastes good and you are willing to pay the 18.99 for it.

If you use a cleaning service for your house, do you ask them how much of their cost is supplies and how much is profit?

Why is it any different for allstar cheer?

If you send your kid to camp do want a breakdown of how much the food cost and how much the arts and crafts supplies are you just know that it's 500 a week

It is a whole product, you can't just get part of it. You have to get the entire thing, you can't just get the uniform or just the competitions or decide that you want everything but the bow.

You aren't buying the ingredients of the soup you are buying the soup

Last restaurant I went to, there was a menu with prices on it. So yes, I did get a breakdown of how much the entire meal cost. Before I decided to order it.

I get what you are saying, I really do. I just come from a place where I would like to know what I am being charged for each component of the cheer season. Do I prefer paying a flat monthly rate because it makes it much easier to budget? Yes. Do I want to pay it not knowing how much I am being charged for tuition, uniforms, sneakers, comp fees, hotels, buses etc.? No.

 

[BlueCat]

Last restaurant I went to, there was a menu with prices on it. So yes, I did get a breakdown of how much the entire meal cost. Before I decided to order it.

I get what you are saying, I really do. I just come from a place where I would like to know what I am being charged for each component of the cheer season. Do I prefer paying a flat monthly rate because it makes it much easier to budget? Yes. Do I want to pay it not knowing how much I am being charged for tuition, uniforms, sneakers, comp fees, hotels, buses etc.? No.

We do have a "menu" of prices for all of our classes, privates, camps, uniforms, shoes, team tuition, etc. Like the restaurant in our example, you can order whatever you want off of that menu and you will know exactly what your bill will be. However, we don't break down the class tuition (or hamburger) costs into their component fees. ($.29 for copy paper, $1.35 for share of janitorial, $4.85 for property tax, $35.83 for coach salary, $8.32 for front desk salary, etc., $18.14 for share of employee health insurance, $1.93 for phone bill, etc.) <<made up numbers>>

Most of the costs are variable and are just estimates. Entry fees are a bit more predictable than some costs, but they vary as well. They can change depending on date of entry, program rebates, whether teams exhibition or not, etc. On rare occasions, some EPs will cut you a deal, sometimes they won't. Sometimes you have to pay for extra coaches passes to events, sometimes you don't. How do you divide out coach expenses as a part of entry fees? There are more costs to going to a competition than simply the check you write the EP a few months before.

If you publish a specific rate for any one portion of your tuition, then parents will want every dime back if there is a savings in that specific area. Many of those same parents would pitch a fit if you try to collect any cost overruns, saying they shouldn't have to pay more than what they were told for ______. In the long run, it is dramatically less headache to not publish your guesstimate of entry fees. I promise it does even out in the long run.

 

[12stepCheermom]

AND, I do not care if the restaurant owner drives a Rolls Royce or a Kia. Not to take this discussion into a ditch, but I'm always appalled when parents make negative comments about the gym owner's Hummer or how nice his house is. Seriously? So, because the business deals with children it should be run like a charity. Yeah, he drives a nicer car that I do and has a nicer house than I do and I helped pay for it. He has those things because he's good at what he does. My children are at his gym because he's good at what he does. Hum?

I got the same thing driving a BMW 325i as a middle school principal. We also live in a gated community (hubs makes considerably more money than me) and that remains an issue (I traded my 9 y/o Beemer for a Kia hybrid because my 6-1 14 y/o cheer prince didn't fit in the Beemer anymore). But then again I also get calls to the superintendent if I'm seen buying a six pack at the grocery store, if I've ordered a margarita at dinner with my family, if my jeans and t-shirt (on the weekend at lowes!) are "not professional," or how about the call that i ran open house without a bra on? It was a bra top cami under a suit jacket folks and im barely a B! etc. just yesterday my DH took the six pack of coolers out of my hand in Walmart (this is a Saturday evening folks) because he saw the same "how dare you work with children!" look from a Walmart patron that I did. There are some nice dresses I own etc that I won't wear unless I'm three counties away or in another state because I'm a principal and work with kids which roughly translates to "I should act and dress like a nun and take public transportation."

I work in the state that pays teachers 48/50 in the nation and on top of that in a county paid 115/117. You have to work hard to find even a teacher that makes less than we do ANYWHERE in the US, we have had our pay frozen for, now, four years but have been piled on with extra kids, less resources and higher expectations and sanctions for not meeting them.....

And on top of that, I'm publicly (this stuff doesn't happen in just "my" parent section, it's in the newspaper where folks get to comment on the articles about now were so overpaid by their tax dollars (really?!) because I drove a 9year old BMW with 115K miles on it) ridiculed for not being a good role model to children because I did what we tell them to do....work your buttt off in school so you can be successful and live comfortably.

Sorry...totally off topic rant, but that entire argument lights my fire and our gym owners drive a hummer and are building a starter home so I get protective when people start in on them like they do on me. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Well since you asked. I feel the prize money should be reinvested back into the program. How it is reinvested into the program is up to the owner because they know where that money is needed. I don't believe that prize money should be divided and given to the parents. We don't pay for prize money we pay for our children to get quality cheer instruction and for them to compete in order to hone those skills.

Totally agree. If its a responsible gym owner they reinvest that to keep building their program, and that means reinvesting in their people too....hopefully there's some distribution of coaches bonuses first and the rest is reinvested in whatever the gym needs materially to continue to build quality athletes. But people make your program, not mats and tumble tracks so take care of who works for you first if you want to keep them.

 

[L5cheermom]

I get what you are saying, I really do. I just come from a place where I would like to know what I am being charged for each component of the cheer season. Do I prefer paying a flat monthly rate because it makes it much easier to budget? Yes. Do I want to pay it not knowing how much I am being charged for tuition, uniforms, sneakers, comp fees, hotels, buses etc.? No.

As a parent of two children in this sport I don't really understand why it matters. I have a $$$ figure that I feel I can afford and I have placed my children at the gym that has the best reputation and the best teams, best coaches, etc that I can afford. Like I said, our gym does break down the costs over the year, but truthfully, it doesn't mean much to me. I know what I pay for choreography and music, coaches travel expenses, etc., but do I know if the cost is appropriate? Not really. I know it seems reasonable, but as long as it is within my budget it doesn't really matter. I know what I am charged for my uniform and have a general idea what one should cost and we are in line with that. Would I be outraged to find that my cost was padded by $20 to purchase uniforms for scholarship athletes? Not really. The thing is I have no clue what it costs to run a cheerleading business. How much is insurance? What is a fair salary for a competent coach? How much is the mortgage/rent? What does it cost to heat/cool a building like that? It's all relative. If the program sucks I don't care if they are the most cost conscious organization in the industry, I'm not lending them my children for 8-10 hours a week.

Like I said in previous posts it really doesn't matter to me how my gym owner spends the $$$ give him. If my children are involved in a successful, growing program that they are proud to be a part of, I am happy. If my child's coach is competent and qualified and treats him or her with respect, I'm happy. If the gym owner addresses concerns and is maintaining a program that is current and competitive, I am happy. We pay our own travel expenses but if it was included and we stayed in acceptable hotels and traveled on safe, clean buses, I'd be happy.

 

[yojaehs]

So as a parent, do you give your gym a bonus check if your child is taught positive lessons and the gym goes above and beyond what is on your "checklist" for payments? If your child gets a college scholarship to cheer in college, do you reimburse your gym with a percentage of that money because they trained your child to get there? The answer is NO, nor should you. If you feel your gym is "cheating" you or taking advantage of you and/or your money, you should find another program. At my gym the finances are managed by a CPA who happens to be an amazing coach as well. So if you asked for a "breakdown" she could probably tell you how much of your tuition is devoted to toilet paper, but if you ask me, I couldn't tell you what any competitions registrations are. The ONLY thing I know about the "money" side of our gym is that we are comparable to every other gym in our area and as a program I consider us successful.

 

[yojaehs]

For those of us ignorant to the behind the scenes details - can someone please explain who the judges are and how they are chosen?

To my knowledge judges chosen are an EP's choice. Depending on the event you could get anyone from someone that has NO cheer experience or a college coach of 15+ years of experience. Some EP's make their judges public, some don't.
I actually spoke to 2 of the "larger" EP's in the biz about scoring and their defense was "We get it right more often than not". My response was "Then why don't you let people know?" Meaning, if I am EP of company "A" and our judges are trained using "XYZ" and through levels 1-5 they find that their scores are 98% accurate, why wouldn't you want EVERYONE to know this?

 

[kristenthegreat]

Let's not get crazy lol.

Cheer is an investment. Like any SMART investment, particularly one that you're constantly throwing money at, we are constantly told to be aware of where our money is going. It's also natural to be cautious if you've been burned by a bad investment. We talk about all these gyms who run off with people's money, shouting to the high heavens 'How could they not know!?!' yet while having a person who is doing something smart with their investment, we're looking at them like they're crazy.

For example: I dropped a heavy chunk of change on an acting seminar that lasted 2 weeks. We'll say it cost me about $1,500. NOW- did they break it down completely, telling me how much of my money went into the pockets of my teachers, how much water cost us, how much went to electricity and the internet, the computer software they used, etc? No, of course not, nor did I ask. BUT- I knew what teachers I'd be taking from. I knew that I could expect my v/o demos and my class footage to be online for me to download. I knew I'd get 3 extra seminars and an industry showcase with 8 casting directors. From that info, I broke it down myself to make sure it all seemed logical and a WORTHY INVESTMENT- it was. Now, had I looked at the cost and thought '$100 for a class with a teacher who hasn't cast anything in the industry in 10 years,' I might have been cautious. In the end if they price is good, you'll pay. But if something doesn't seem to add up, it's easiest to spot THEN, before you're knee deep in the season and can't leave.

 

[newcheerdad]

But then how well each time the scoring system is executed would still be up to the EP. It would produce better results, but come right back to 'did they score them better cause they brought more teams'.

You know, clubs run soccer tournaments all the time, and I don't think I've ever heard it suggested that the referees (who are licensed officials hired by the tournament organizers) are "favoring" someone because they brought more teams to the tournament. Maybe they are, but if it is, that certainly doesn't filter down to my level.

I think the problem is that the perception exists that an EP might be favoring teams because each EP has their own non-transparent, difficult to understand scoring system. When you don't understand how the event is scored and you don't know why it is scored, it lends itself to the kind of speculation that you note above. If you have a transparent scoring system that coaches, parents and athletes can understand, it's a lot harder for an event producer - even if they wanted to - to manipulate scores in order to get the desired result.

And if the scoring system is uniform and consistent, it's a lot easier to train judges who don't have to re-learn a new scoring rubric every week. That alone will improve quality greatly.

 

[dm1225]

Agreed. Soccer, however, is a less susceptible to accusations of favoritism because the sport itself has less subjectivity in it's officiating. At the end of the day, the team with the most goals is the winner.

 

[L5cheermom]

I think the problem is that the perception exists that an EP might be favoring teams because each EP has their own non-transparent, difficult to understand scoring system. When you don't understand how the event is scored and you don't know why it is scored, it lends itself to the kind of speculation that you note above.

So true. The longer we cheer and go to the same competitions year after year the judging becomes more and more consistent. Truth is I probably just understand the scoring system better.

 

[crazeecheermom]

Isn't a new guideline from the USASF to arrive ready to compete?

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