All-Star Usasf Major Changes

[Cheer Observer]

Cheerleading is losing athletes bc it's too expensive, but I don't see EP's dropping their prices?

Agreed. The economy sucks right now and families are struggling to make ends meet. When push comes to shove and you have to choose between food on the table or your kids in allstar cheer I think the choice is clear......I will await the smartass remarks ;-)
As for EP's lowering prices, it would be nice to see that but not likely. That said, all WSF events are FREE admission and you can't beat that!

The fundamental problem with all of this is the fact that the USASF is not independent. With Varsity being a for-profit corporation and having a controlling interest in the USASF, there will always be an inherent conflict. In order for cheer to ever be considered a legitimate sport, the governing body HAS to be truly independent. What if GK controlled USA Gymnastics? Or Nike controlled the NFL? Everyone is fired up now, but people tend to have short attention spans. I predict that the USASF will come out with enough revisions to these recent changes to appease the masses, and by next week everything will be back to normal with teams preparing for Worlds, etc. It's up to us to not let this die. Gym owners, independent event producers, cheerleaders --- we are the heart of the sport. If we band together we can cause change. We just need to do it.

As I stated in a post in another thread, as much as I hate to say this it all comes down to $. You are correct that unless the governing body is independent you will always run into issues/conflict.
The Cheer community, Parents (who pay the tuition/comp fees, uniform fees etc.) along with the Gym Owners, Event Promoters and the Advertisers ultimately have the power here because once we lose interest it has a cumulative effect and the walls will come crumbling down around the USASF. Stay together and be loud with your opinions, we have already proven that we have their attention.

 

[NJ Coach]

ok...so it's been a few days, and I'm still comprehending all that has happened, my feelings on it all and where we go from here.

In regards to the tumbling, I think we all agree that it's not so much the actual skills as it is the technique and the throwing of said skills before they are ready. I have seen some very scary tumbling (at all levels) that I would not for a second consider allowing an athlete to throw. I always wonder if their coaches are seeing the same thing I am. If not, what the heck are they looking at? If they are, is the push for skills and higher levels outweighing the safety and proper progression of the sport? I think I know the answer to that.

In regards to the uniform, this has been hanging over our heads for years. It really doesn't shock me that they slipped it in. My question is, why does it need to be regulated by the USASF? If, as a parent, you don't want your kids wearing a crop top, there are plenty of gyms that wear full. The uniform is a personal choice, and why shouldn't we be given the right to make that? Forget the fact that the 10 year old on seniors can wear it, but the 14 year old junior can't. That's just going to cause internal issues...or the complete destruction of all junior level teams. I can think of several gyms within drivable distance to mine that wear full tops. If any of our athletes or their parents refused to allow them to wear a crop, they could certainly go there without a severe inconvenience.

The age-grid...well, I'm not upset about the minimum age on seniors being 10, or the youth age bumping up to 12. My youthies aren't necessarily thrilled (particularly the ones that would've aged out), but whatever. Again, I think bumping the age up to 12 will effectively kill the junior divisions. I would've like to have seen the tiny age bumped up. The international age I'm not crazy about (and not just because it just killed our IAG). Why are we creating separate ages for US vs International countries? We've already made tumbling less important to help protect those teams. I understand that they are trying to build up the International teams, but separate rules for separate countries? Not something I'll agree with. This has to be all or none. Either you don't allow the US to compete, or everyone competes by the same rules (the Bangkok situation should serve as an example here).

The image etiquette is the one that really got my blood boiling. The vast majority of the things listed are what should be happening, but the need to regulate it from the governing body? Yes, everyone should display good sportsmanship. Yes, cheerleaders should look presentable. I agree that every team should have its moment, and yes we instill these into our cheerleaders. Who exactly is going to be in charge of enforcing these? Currently, that's my job...but are the EP's taking over that job? The kids who volunteer at the comps going to be in charge? The same people whose job it is to make sure no one is saving seats, staying in VIP seating all day, or making sure people don't use more time than allotted in warmup? What about the judges? Are they going to enforce it? The same ones who tell me to add variety to my level 2 tosses, add more tumbling, or tell me to dance to counts not words? What about the actual EP's? The ones that allow teams to drop levels to win a jacket, allow overage athletes to compete and charge money for you to contest it. What about the ones that have unsafe warmup, with minimum amounts of time to actually warmup, or make you stand on line after warming up for 40 minutes? The same event producers who won't allow a universal scoresheet...those EP's?

The thing that bothered me most was the back-door wheeling and dealing. This should be an open process. If there are numbers, let's see them. If the only way this all could be done was in private, than there's something wrong with that. We are, for the most part, and educated group. We want the sport and the industry to succeed. Gives us valid reasons, and we can probably get on board.

 

[yojaehs]

ok...so it's been a few days, and I'm still comprehending all that has happened, my feelings on it all and where we go from here.

In regards to the tumbling, I think we all agree that it's not so much the actual skills as it is the technique and the throwing of said skills before they are ready. I have seen some very scary tumbling (at all levels) that I would not for a second consider allowing an athlete to throw. I always wonder if their coaches are seeing the same thing I am. If not, what the heck are they looking at? If they are, is the push for skills and higher levels outweighing the safety and proper progression of the sport? I think I know the answer to that.

In regards to the uniform, this has been hanging over our heads for years. It really doesn't shock me that they slipped it in. My question is, why does it need to be regulated by the USASF? If, as a parent, you don't want your kids wearing a crop top, there are plenty of gyms that wear full. The uniform is a personal choice, and why shouldn't we be given the right to make that? Forget the fact that the 10 year old on seniors can wear it, but the 14 year old junior can't. That's just going to cause internal issues...or the complete destruction of all junior level teams. I can think of several gyms within drivable distance to mine that wear full tops. If any of our athletes or their parents refused to allow them to wear a crop, they could certainly go there without a severe inconvenience.

The age-grid...well, I'm not upset about the minimum age on seniors being 10, or the youth age bumping up to 12. My youthies aren't necessarily thrilled (particularly the ones that would've aged out), but whatever. Again, I think bumping the age up to 12 will effectively kill the junior divisions. I would've like to have seen the tiny age bumped up. The international age I'm not crazy about (and not just because it just killed our IAG). Why are we creating separate ages for US vs International countries? We've already made tumbling less important to help protect those teams. I understand that they are trying to build up the International teams, but separate rules for separate countries? Not something I'll agree with. This has to be all or none. Either you don't allow the US to compete, or everyone competes by the same rules (the Bangkok situation should serve as an example here).

The image etiquette is the one that really got my blood boiling. The vast majority of the things listed are what should be happening, but the need to regulate it from the governing body? Yes, everyone should display good sportsmanship. Yes, cheerleaders should look presentable. I agree that every team should have its moment, and yes we instill these into our cheerleaders. Who exactly is going to be in charge of enforcing these? Currently, that's my job...but are the EP's taking over that job? The kids who volunteer at the comps going to be in charge? The same people whose job it is to make sure no one is saving seats, staying in VIP seating all day, or making sure people don't use more time than allotted in warmup? What about the judges? Are they going to enforce it? The same ones who tell me to add variety to my level 2 tosses, add more tumbling, or tell me to dance to counts not words? What about the actual EP's? The ones that allow teams to drop levels to win a jacket, allow overage athletes to compete and charge money for you to contest it. What about the ones that have unsafe warmup, with minimum amounts of time to actually warmup, or make you stand on line after warming up for 40 minutes? The same event producers who won't allow a universal scoresheet...those EP's?

The thing that bothered me most was the back-door wheeling and dealing. This should be an open process. If there are numbers, let's see them. If the only way this all could be done was in private, than there's something wrong with that. We are, for the most part, and educated group. We want the sport and the industry to succeed. Gives us valid reasons, and we can probably get on board.

Apparently USASF doesn't think anyone can be a responsible coach. I feel that I am MORE strict on my kids about the way they act than these rules state.

 

[SheCheers]

The image etiquette is the one that really got my blood boiling. The vast majority of the things listed are what should be happening, but the need to regulate it from the governing body? Yes, everyone should display good sportsmanship. Yes, cheerleaders should look presentable. I agree that every team should have its moment, and yes we instill these into our cheerleaders. Who exactly is going to be in charge of enforcing these? Currently, that's my job...but are the EP's taking over that job? The kids who volunteer at the comps going to be in charge? The same people whose job it is to make sure no one is saving seats, staying in VIP seating all day, or making sure people don't use more time than allotted in warmup? What about the judges? Are they going to enforce it? The same ones who tell me to add variety to my level 2 tosses, add more tumbling, or tell me to dance to counts not words? What about the actual EP's? The ones that allow teams to drop levels to win a jacket, allow overage athletes to compete and charge money for you to contest it. What about the ones that have unsafe warmup, with minimum amounts of time to actually warmup, or make you stand on line after warming up for 40 minutes? The same event producers who won't allow a universal scoresheet...those EP's?

i don't disagree one bit with what you're saying here, but the image etiquette, i believe was just a list of GUIDELINES, they were asking folks to follow. I never took it as a hard and fast rule that will amount in deductions. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. they didn't bother me as much because to me they were "reminders". Just like in my kids cafeteria where they "suggest" on more than one colorful poster how the kids should be eating and acting (don't talk with food in your mouth, eat your veggies before your dessert, etc). but no one is getting in trouble for not following the guidelines.

I do agree that they need to focus on the other things you mentioned.

 

[dawgshow]

One more thought and I'll try to let this go. If crop tops are so necessary for comfort and body temperature, why do boys not wear them?

 

[Cheer Observer]

One more thought and I'll try to let this go. If crop tops are so necessary for comfort and body temperature, why do boys not wear them?[/quote]

Really? Heck, why stop there? Let's put them in skirts too, stop it already.

 

[Cheer Observer]

dawgshow said:​

One more thought and I'll try to let this go. If crop tops are so necessary for comfort and body temperature, why do boys not wear them?​

​

Really? Heck, why stop there? Let's put them in skirts too, stop it already.​

My fault, I screwed up my last post.....​

 

[NorthINCheermama]

One more thought and I'll try to let this go. If crop tops are so necessary for comfort and body temperature, why do boys not wear them?

True. Or at least short sleeve shirts and shorts. All the boys on our SR Lvl. 5 team have long uniform tops and long pants, they are all OUTSTANDING tumblers. Not sure that the whole crop top debate is even a concern. The tumbling issues are the biggest fight - that and USASF's obvious homophobic agenda.

 

[dawgshow]

dawgshow said:​

One more thought and I'll try to let this go. If crop tops are so necessary for comfort and body temperature, why do boys not wear them?​

​

Really? Heck, why stop there? Let's put them in skirts too, stop it already.​

My fault, I screwed up my last post.....​

I realize that it sounded snarky, but it really wasn't completely. I've heard the comfort and heat argument come up so often (which could be valid) but then I realized that boys are in long pants and long sleeved shirts all the time. Why can they compete like that and not be overheated?
For the record, I'm not against crop tops in theory (even though people might think so based on some of my posts in this thread).

 

[bobbi]

There is a right and wrong way to go about these things. This is the WRONG way to go about it. Insurance definitely important but if own Burger King and am looking for insurance and say ok I'm just gonna serve salads bc I don't wanna train my staff to work a grill, what does that do? It pulls the wool over the Insurance companies eyes and doesn't fix anything, just says you don't wanna train your staff and you will continue to have injuries, (slip and fall on a cucumber bc they don't know protocol on how to do the basics like clean up after themselves). If this wants to be end product then take your time and do it RIGHT. If the USASF showed PROOF of Insurance companies being MORE willing to decrease rates if they removed skills then people would prob support it. Same with all of their rules. To be 100% honest the uniform issue really doesn't go one way or the other to me, I just think again, the WAY it's done is WRONG. Show me stats that say "cheerleading uniforms are WHY the sport is losing athletes", again, people would get behind it. IMO Image should be left up to the gym owners, if they lose kids it's their fault. Cheerleading is losing athletes bc it's too expensive, but I don't see EP's dropping their prices?

I dont think the uniform debate is that its why the sport is "loosing" atheletes. I would say it goes closer to our main objective. Which is to be taken seriously as a competitive sport. We dont need to wear short skirts or tops that barely cover our bits to do it. For instance, there are many programs such as Stingrays and Charlotte that use clean, well fitting uniforms. There is just no reason for our athletes to be wearing so little clothing. And because the gym owners keep pushing the envelope it is ultimately why attire has become such a distraction in the first place. The "suggestions" and "recommendations" have been made for a few years now. And have gone completely ignored. It really is time something be done before our minis are competing in briefs and a sports bra. And as crazy as that sounds, look at some of the uniforms that have hit the floor. We all know that without boundaries it is very well possible.

 

[yojaehs]

I dont think the uniform debate is that its why the sport is "loosing" atheletes. I would say it goes closer to our main objective. Which is to be taken seriously as a competitive sport. We dont need to wear short skirts or tops that barely cover our bits to do it. For instance, there are many programs such as Stingrays and Charlotte that use clean, well fitting uniforms. There is just no reason for our athletes to be wearing so little clothing. And because the gym owners keep pushing the envelope it is ultimately why attire has become such a distraction in the first place. The "suggestions" and "recommendations" have been made for a few years now. And have gone completely ignored. It really is time something be done before our minis are competing in briefs and a sports bra. And as crazy as that sounds, look at some of the uniforms that have hit the floor. We all know that without boundaries it is very well possible.

I'm not against uniform restrictions, I'm against saying uniforms are the reason we are losing kids. Step #1 UNIVERSAL SCORE SHEET!

 

[Reallycoolcheermommy]

I am still more comfortable seeing the little girls' tummies than the senior girls in the VERY short tops and bottoms. Make whatever modesty rule apply across the board!

I Find it very uncomfortable that these men on the board who voted to have the boys be less "flamboyant" are making sure that the fully developed girls are still the ones that get to wear the more "skimpy type" uniforms!?
Anyone else feel this way??


Reallycoolcheermommy Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wcdad]

I get where they are coming from with the tumbling rule changes, but honestly, the things we are doing are dangerous and difficult. just as football, hockey, gymnastics, any other sport there are high chances of injury. So, should we say you can't tackle in football because it blows out a lot of people's knees? or gymnasts shouldn't do anything more than single rotation and one flip because they're breaking, spraining, etc left and right? no. they're literally taking the spark of the industry away. do people honestly think the general public is entertained by a level 3 team? no. they want to see the death defying things we do in level 5. we're watering down a sport that has advanced so far in society thanks to the difficulty. we're watering things down when we should really just be teaching coaches how to correctly coach

Rules in football are always changing. Example, several years ago a receiver goes up to catch the ball and he ran the risk of getting tattooed by the defense. Now the defense can not hit the receiver until he makes a football move. That rule has had major changes to the game.

 

[bobbi]

I'm not against uniform restrictions, I'm against saying uniforms are the reason we are losing kids. Step #1 UNIVERSAL SCORE SHEET!

AGREED =) Why is that so hard? A universal score sheet isnt so tough or unthinkable.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I posted this in another thread, but thought it fit here as well.

Just to clarify...I don't think that the statement that males should not be theatrical (or whatever it said...) was a rule. Nor was the part about boots, pajama pants, arriving competition ready, etc. So it wasn't "voted on". It was listed on the page with the guidelines, which was probably just drawn up quickly by a few people with just a quickly put together list of "things we'd like to see".

I wish everyone on here would have READ all the documents as they were, not how everyone saw on Facebook and here that they THOUGHT they were. The pages with the Do's and Don't's were just guidelines, NOT RULES. There is a difference between "Do arrive competition ready, Don't wear fashionable boots" and "No participant shall arrive to the venue without being competition ready and in full competition apparel." There is also a HUGE difference in the 2 documents. One was clearly labeled "New rules for 2012-2013" (official rules that all gyms have to follow) and one was just a silly looking chart of Do's and Don'ts that were very clearly (to me) suggestions (silly guidelines to post somewhere reminding everyone what is supposedly "appropriate".

So please take the time to educate yourselves on the difference between the 2 documents.
--One is rules, which they *intend* to enforce --> worth fighting for and worth taking action to change.
--One is guidelines, which will never be enforced and your gym can take them as they see fit --> NOT worth fighting for and definitely not worth taking action to change.

(Yes, I'm aware that the timing was stupid - not sure why they sent out both documents together. And I'm also aware the crop top thing was in the rules. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about that one though...seems like we have bigger fish to fry. I have no problem putting my 10-year-old in MORE clothes)



***This is in no way suggesting that I think the statement regarding males was anything other than bigoted, sexist, and disgusting. Just saying they weren't saying it was a rule and that teams will not receive deductions for it. I totally agree that an HUGE apology is in order and that someone should take a stand on behalf of USASF and admit that that was a disgusting lack of judgment on their part.