All-Star Where's The Loyalty?

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Speaking from a school cheer perspective, I have alternates.

Since I have them, I can't justify keeping a kid who can no longer tumble in a comp routine when I have someone who can.

I will try to work around a mental block and just make that person a nugget, but if it persists, I need to plug in someone who is reliable.

Same with tryouts. If you can't tumble, I cannot just hold a spot for you based the tumbling you USED to have.

You try out and are scored the same as everyone else. With a zero for tumbling.

It's sad. I've had parents and kids ask me to score them on past tumbling but I don't find it to be fair to other kids.

I look at it like this, if you try out for a college team, you most likely aren't going to be able to say "I have a mental block but I could do ______ three months ago. Score that."

The only time I asked to be scored on previous tumbling is when I broke my foot 2 days before senior year cheer tryouts. I Tried out with a boot on my foot and did everything except tumble. But by then the coaches had had me for 3 years so they knew what I could do and knew I could do it reliably.


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For some weird reason loyalty is always expected from the athletes, but rarely given from the owners/coaches.

Kids are threatened to be replaced all the time in case a better athlete walks through the door mid season - just for the chance of placing better at the next competition. Why do athletes have to stay at that gym if they are given the chance to be on a team at another gym that will be more successful?

When owners/coaches start to be loyal again I'd guess that athletes and parents will do the same.
The thing is, the judges/scoresheet doesn't care that Susie has a mental block or whatever the case may be. It's a numbers game. My loyalty will be to the team. My job is to make sure the team has the absolute best chance of performing their best routine that fits the scoresheet.
 
Speaking from a school cheer perspective, I have alternates.

Since I have them, I can't justify keeping a kid who can no longer tumble in a comp routine when I have someone who can.

I will try to work around a mental block and just make that person a nugget, but if it persists, I need to plug in someone who is reliable.

Same with tryouts. If you can't tumble, I cannot just hold a spot for you based the tumbling you USED to have.

You try out and are scored the same as everyone else. With a zero for tumbling.

It's sad. I've had parents and kids ask me to score them on past tumbling but I don't find it to be fair to other kids.

I look at it like this, if you try out for a college team, you most likely aren't going to be able to say "I have a mental block but I could do ______ three months ago. Score that."
What about kids that just don't have the appropriate level tumbling? I hear so often parents say they're child is a level 3 athlete because of their tumbling. However same child isn't in stunts cause they are not reliable in any of the positions. Why is so much weight put on tumbling? Yet stunts which seem to account for more points are viewed like anyone can do them? Which is definitely not the case.

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What about kids that just don't have the appropriate level tumbling? I hear so often parents say they're child is a level 3 athlete because of their tumbling. However same child isn't in stunts cause they are not reliable in any of the positions. Why is so much weight put on tumbling? Yet stunts which seem to account for more points are viewed like anyone can do them? Which is definitely not the case.

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Because tumbling is an individual skill, and it generally takes longer to attain tumbling skills than stunting skills.
 
Because tumbling is an individual skill, and it generally takes longer to attain tumbling skills than stunting skills.
Totally agree, I think anyone could be a level 5 stunter if they work at it long enough. I don't think anyone could become a level 5 tumbler. Coming from someone who barely qualifies as a level 5 tumbler, the stunting aspect of level 5 was far easier.
 
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The thing is, the judges/scoresheet doesn't care that Susie has a mental block or whatever the case may be. It's a numbers game. My loyalty will be to the team. My job is to make sure the team has the absolute best chance of performing their best routine that fits the scoresheet.

As long as the parents and kids know at the beginning of the season that replacing may happen for mental blocks that is not what I'm talking about.

For me it's more of:

You put together a team at the beginning of the season knowing very well what the skills of each athlete are. You place athlete A on a level 3 team that has level 3 skills, but lacks any specialties for tumbling. During national season an athlete walks in that has the same skills but also the specialties, you replace the athlete that was originally on the team just to place better at nationals and Summit. Athlete A is now placed on your level 2 team.

You decide mid-season to do tryouts for one of your teams that were never spoken of before. A new athlete walks in that week and replaces another athlete that has been with you for years. The skills are overall the exact same, but for jumps this athlete scores 1 point more than the athlete that has been with you for years.


If coaches/gym owners replace athletes out of the blue in the middle of the season just for their advantage, why should I not be able to leave mid-season just for my advantage?
 
Totally agree, I think anyone could be a level 5 stunter if they work at it long enough. I don't think anyone could become a level 5 tumbler. Coming from someone who barely qualifies as a level 5 tumbler, the stunting aspect of level 5 was far easier.
I get that. I guess I just see the short term. We've had to pull up 2 lower level athletes to help our stunts because a few of the kids struggled basing. Then the parents got frustrated that these lower level athletes were tainting the team. It's just hard to see parents become elitist. I don't care if someone doesn't have all the skills if the coach needs them on the team the parents shouldn't be putting them down. One of the athletes overheard a parent complaining about their lack of tumbling it was devastating for the girl. Especially since she was so excited to be asked to cross over. It just breaks my heart to see kids being treated that way by adults who know better.

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As long as the parents and kids know at the beginning of the season that replacing may happen for mental blocks that is not what I'm talking about.

For me it's more of:

You put together a team at the beginning of the season knowing very well what the skills of each athlete are. You place athlete A on a level 3 team that has level 3 skills, but lacks any specialties for tumbling. During national season an athlete walks in that has the same skills but also the specialties, you replace the athlete that was originally on the team just to place better at nationals and Summit. Athlete A is now placed on your level 2 team.

You decide mid-season to do tryouts for one of your teams that were never spoken of before. A new athlete walks in that week and replaces another athlete that has been with you for years. The skills are overall the exact same, but for jumps this athlete scores 1 point more than the athlete that has been with you for years.


If coaches/gym owners replace athletes out of the blue in the middle of the season just for their advantage, why should I not be able to leave mid-season just for my advantage?
That makes sense. although in your scenario the coach is doing what is best for the team. The parent would be doing what is best for that athlete. I think as a parent you need to decide do you want your child to learn about selfishness or selflessness? I don't mean selfishness is necessarily a bad thing I think there are great benefits to being selfish in certain scenarios but there's also a great lesson to learn about taking one for the team/being a team player. It's not always so easy to decide which is best especially when emotions are involved.

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I think we have to graduate from this mind set that tumbling skills dictate an athletes level. I have seen so many amazing athletes leave this sport because they couldn't "get their full" and felt cheer was over for them. The score sheet has clearly indicated that while tumbling is important, stunting is where more of the points are coming from. This is ESPECIALLY evident on the coed score sheet this year. IMO I have noticed that athletes tend to fall into the "tumblers" or "stunters" category. It doesn't mean they don't do both "well" especially if we are talking about L5, but they tend to excel in one vs the other. I agree that some athletes will just never get a double (my CP included LOL) but I also know some tumblers that will never be able to 2 man at L5 either or base the elite stunts that are now required for the quantity scores. I see these athletes get just as discouraged because they see the change in the score sheets and the climate and now realize that their training should have been more "rounded" to include this aspect vs the push on tumbling all the time. The climate of All Star Cheerleading has changed drastically over the last 13 seasons. In the beginning, tumbling was the bar that dictated your level. I am seeing more and more gyms taking stunting into consideration and those are the gyms that are more competitive and understand the direction this sport is traveling.
 
If coaches/gym owners replace athletes out of the blue in the middle of the season just for their advantage, why should I not be able to leave mid-season just for my advantage?

Again, for me, it's the team aspect of the sport. Being on a team does require a certain degree of selflessness. The coach, presumably, does what's best for the team, so the loyalty has to be the team as opposed to individuals. If that means my CP's role is reduced or she is moved to a lower level team, then I'm okay with that if the team will score better. She would hate it, and my hope would be she would do whatever it takes to get back on the former team, but I think it would be a good life lesson in the end. I want her to be a team player, and I don't want her to have a sense of entitlement.
 
I get that. I guess I just see the short term. We've had to pull up 2 lower level athletes to help our stunts because a few of the kids struggled basing. Then the parents got frustrated that these lower level athletes were tainting the team. It's just hard to see parents become elitist. I don't care if someone doesn't have all the skills if the coach needs them on the team the parents shouldn't be putting them down. One of the athletes overheard a parent complaining about their lack of tumbling it was devastating for the girl. Especially since she was so excited to be asked to cross over. It just breaks my heart to see kids being treated that way by adults who know better.

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I definitely didn't mean to imply that tumbling was the only thing that mattered! If your stunting isn't up to par I think that's just as bad. There's only so much space you can set aside on a team for pure tumblers. In an ideal world, you have the tumbling and the stunting for your level.
 
Last season we did 4 comps we did not have exactly the same team hit the mat at any of the comps. One parent a week before a xomp pulled their kid because she didn't want to pay fora uniform already ordered. Another one week was made to do a horse show as she didn't qualify for a bigger show and as the kid was the coaches everyday jobs bosses daughter she said it was fine. I got mildly injured, I lost my job, I got humiliated in front of my team and ignored because I new the score sheet. I keep my commitment but never doing that again because my teammates never cared about the rest of the team.

I am still talking to friends from my old team 2 seasons ago.
 
Again, for me, it's the team aspect of the sport. Being on a team does require a certain degree of selflessness. The coach, presumably, does what's best for the team, so the loyalty has to be the team as opposed to individuals. If that means my CP's role is reduced or she is moved to a lower level team, then I'm okay with that if the team will score better. She would hate it, and my hope would be she would do whatever it takes to get back on the former team, but I think it would be a good life lesson in the end. I want her to be a team player, and I don't want her to have a sense of entitlement.
But in a scenario like this the coaches knew what the skills were all along and made the choice for that specific team to have that athlete join the team. It's not like they lost skills, it's just that somebody better came in. I'm all for the better of a team but just because something shiny and new walks in doesn't mean you toss out what you already had, you work with what you have instead of discard. It's one thing if they lost their skills and aren't performing at that level anymore, but it's another when they are and just aren't the new flavour of the month. The last time I checked cheer wasn't determined by a bell curve.

Now if the coaches clearly communicated that this could happen at the beginning of the season and families and athletes are aware that this is a possibility, that's one thing but do so randomly is another. That's being proactive instead of reactive.

See...it all goes back to clear and concise communication of exceptions.

Loyalty goes both ways. What's the message that gets sent when a child holds up their end of the agreement, commits to the team, attends all practices, hasn't lost their skills that they started the season with AND is still removed? Engagement and confidence go a long way in building a cohesive and functioning team. Everybody strives to do more when they feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves and a contributing member. The moment that somebody feels disengaged is the moment you've lost the synergy on a team. Leadership skills are needed to navigate these challenges but writing somebody off isn't always the best answer.

Evidently the coach saw something in them in the first place. Coaching is more than leading a group of kids to do tumbling or stunts. They have a tremendous opportunity to impact the lives that they work with. Instil life lessons and pour into them skills that will take them through life.
 
There are very few things I hate more than someone who leaves mid season. Obviously, there are circumstances that can't be helped (injury, illness etc), BUT if you leave me mid season, the voodoo doll will come out.
I totally agree. I taught my kids to finish what you started you signed up to be part of a team you finish out that year/season with the team and then you are free to move on. I guess I instilled this too well in my daughter, had an athlete on her team quit the week before their 1st. comp. and my daughter was friends with this girl and she hasn't spoken to her since. She feels that it was a terrible thing that she did and the girls' reason for quitting was that she just didn't want to cheer anymore.
 
Last season we did 4 comps we did not have exactly the same team hit the mat at any of the comps. One parent a week before a xomp pulled their kid because she didn't want to pay fora uniform already ordered. Another one week was made to do a horse show as she didn't qualify for a bigger show and as the kid was the coaches everyday jobs bosses daughter she said it was fine. I got mildly injured, I lost my job, I got humiliated in front of my team and ignored because I new the score sheet. I keep my commitment but never doing that again because my teammates never cared about the rest of the team.

I am still talking to friends from my old team 2 seasons ago.


This. I have dealt with a lot of grief and negativity towards me from my old gym and teammates over the last few years, sometimes bordering on bullying. When it was brought up with the coaches/owner, I was pretty much dismissed as they were sorry it happened, but no big deal. I was also been told so many different things about my placement on teams that my head was spinning. I have no loyalty to this team anymore after the way I was treated, yet everyone wondered why I wasn't happy there anymore. It was interesting moving to a new gym which was perceived in a very different light (negative, plays favourites, etc.) and being welcomed with open arms into one of the most positive environments I've experienced in the last few years. It's restored my faith in this sport somewhat. However, when I'm treated so poorly after so many years, you've lost my loyalty, and that's an incredibly hard thing to do.
 
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