All-Star Your Daughter Won't Fly Forever

[meetmeat_themat]

I know on this board it will be an unpopular opinion but for senior aged athletes why oh why is it the flyer is grounded for being too tall/too heavy while their ground crew do no weight/strength training. I completely agree under 16s aren't ready for weights generally but in any other sport requiring lifting 90/100+ pounds over your head, you would be strength training. I'd love to be wrong but NO gyms around us do anything other than basic bodyweight conditioning but yet its the flyers who are blamed for being too tall/too heavy. Three ex-flyer acquaintances of mine are receiving treatment for eating disorders due to this. Barring physical injuries/limitations, all of us could benefit from some strength training.

 

[Keep_Believing]

@Cheer dad Yes, to me that is different. If it is the middle of the season and they need your CP to base then finish the season basing.

I have the unusual stance when the season is over leave if you want, for any reason, and without guilt. Your money , your kid, your choice, etc.

 

[cheer25mom]

I know on this board it will be an unpopular opinion but for senior aged athletes why oh why is it the flyer is grounded for being too tall/too heavy while their ground crew do no weight/strength training. I completely agree under 16s aren't ready for weights generally but in any other sport requiring lifting 90/100+ pounds over your head, you would be strength training. I'd love to be wrong but NO gyms around us do anything other than basic bodyweight conditioning but yet its the flyers who are blamed for being too tall/too heavy. Three ex-flyer acquaintances of mine are receiving treatment for eating disorders due to this. Barring physical injuries/limitations, all of us could benefit from some strength training.

At our gym VAST majority of our senior bases are under 16 most of the older girls in the 16-18 range are backspotting. My CP is 13, 5'1" 130 lbs and bases a 5'0" 90 lb flyer on a senior team. No way could she handle a 5' 6" 120 lb flyer at the level she is going to need to stunt at this upcoming year, and I am not ok with her lifting weights at that age to bulk up. They SHOULDN'T be doing anything other than basic body weight conditioning. The long term wear and tear on bases is an issue no one wants to talk about, but a lot of them have repetitive motion shoulder injuries that have to be treated surgically at some point in their lives. There are also a lot of back issues, even among bases that use proper technique, because of the repeated weight bearing. Limiting the amount they have to lift goes a long way to helping prevent those.

THIS is why bigger girls don't fly on senior teams for most gyms. Bigger gyms with the personnel to put under them might be able to keep them in the air longer, but that's not the reality of the situation most places, and most bigger gyms have plenty of flyers to choose from. It makes sense that they would use the smallest flyer with the skills to hit the stunt. and put the least amount of stress on bases bodies.

 

[riwa12]

This 100%. My kid is the base that the count on to "get it done" no matter where they put her. Inevitably, if a stunt is having problems and it isn't getting better, she ends up under it, and is expected to fix the issue. She's also the first one called out when it doesn't.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is my daughter to a tee as well!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I flew all through my time as an active cheerleader. I was that kid who was 15 with people asking "Is she really senior aged? She looks like a third grader." Basing for any length of time was not in the cards.

Confession: The two seasons in school cheer where I was point flyer were the most stressful. To the point that I was jealous of my backspot best friend.

Not that her job was easier. It totally wasn't. But when it falls, no one in the crowd says "the backspot dropped that stunt." They say "that flyer fell/came down."

It is not all winks and sassy motions, moms.

I think in scholastic cheer, staying a flyer is more common. I think over all of my years coaching, only a few kids have became bases after being flyers, and those were the "JV" flyers b/c we needed tops. In all star it is more common b/c of the variety of ages.

 

[BlueCat]

I think in scholastic cheer, staying a flyer is more common. I think over all of my years coaching, only a few kids have became bases after being flyers, and those were the "JV" flyers b/c we needed tops. In all star it is more common b/c of the variety of ages.

If they raised the "floor" of ages for senior 5, you would see generally larger sized flyers on those teams. You would also see less difficulty performed overall.

 

[catlady]

I know on this board it will be an unpopular opinion but for senior aged athletes why oh why is it the flyer is grounded for being too tall/too heavy while their ground crew do no weight/strength training. I completely agree under 16s aren't ready for weights generally but in any other sport requiring lifting 90/100+ pounds over your head, you would be strength training. I'd love to be wrong but NO gyms around us do anything other than basic bodyweight conditioning but yet its the flyers who are blamed for being too tall/too heavy. Three ex-flyer acquaintances of mine are receiving treatment for eating disorders due to this. Barring physical injuries/limitations, all of us could benefit from some strength training.

Because it is faster to replace a flyer than to get a stunt group weight trained. Because a stunt group gets less winded and has more stamina throwing and lifting a light flyer throughout a routine versus a heavier flyer. Because sheer physics tells us that supporting something at the base of something short is easier than supporting something at the base of something tall. Because catching/lifting/holding a heavier flyer repetitively is harder on the shoulders, elbows and wrists and can cause tendinitis.

I do feel for the flyers that have flown for years and are taken out of the air. It's not just kids or flyers, we all associate with what we do, can do or have done for many years. Sports, hobbies, work, driving...it is hard when we are not able to do something we love, enjoy or could for years. Denial, anger, depression, acceptance are normal steps after a loss of anything we've enjoyed. And, for that person that lives vicariously through their child or spouse's accomplishments, they will go through the steps of acceptance along with them.

 

[Cheer_Up_Everyone]

All the pressure of a stunt is basically on the flyer. I have told her numerous times "you can't actually fly so just do your best if your stunt isn't hitting." I know everyone says it takes all 4 to stay in the air but all anyone remembers is which flyers stunt fell. It's definitely not a cakewalk!

All the pressure is on the flyer? I definitely don't blame the flyer when I see a stunt fall. I think the casual cheer fan who attends one comp in their life might. Maybe I'm different but if a stunt falls, I will casually ask either of my 2 CPs (both bases on separate teams) afterwards -- "what happened there?" They will honestly tell me "she over rotated" or "we didn't fight hard enough to keep it up" or whatever.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

If they raised the "floor" of ages for senior 5, you would see generally larger sized flyers on those teams. You would also see less difficulty performed overall.

Which is fine and expected. I was just commenting based on the previous topic of small seniors in HS and why as a scholastic cheerleader, it is more common to still be flying as a 12th grader.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Physics for flyers, when give both flyers have excellent technique and flexibility which is a bigger advantage height or weight? Example a flyer that is 4'10 , but weighs 95 pounds or a flyer that is 5'2 , but weighs 85 pounds? Just a random example, but genuinely curious. I prefer to put the emphasis on height due to the issues of eating disorders.

 

[_MRB]

From the parent of a base, I don't blame the gym one bit for not forcing my 5'1" daughter to base a 5'6" flyer who cannot accept that her flying days are done. In a lot of cases, it keeps people from getting hurt.

Bottom line is that it's harder to hit with a taller, heavier flyer, assuming both flyers do their job. It's simple physics. The smaller girl with the same high skill level gets the job.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I understand the height difference plays a role. But I've based flyers taller than me (and I'm 5'6), and they've done JUST as good as the flyers who are 4'9. It's cheerleading, it's not supposed to be easy.

 

[meetmeat_themat]

At our gym VAST majority of our senior bases are under 16 most of the older girls in the 16-18 range are backspotting. My CP is 13, 5'1" 130 lbs and bases a 5'0" 90 lb flyer on a senior team. No way could she handle a 5' 6" 120 lb flyer at the level she is going to need to stunt at this upcoming year, and I am not ok with her lifting weights at that age to bulk up. They SHOULDN'T be doing anything other than basic body weight conditioning. The long term wear and tear on bases is an issue no one wants to talk about, but a lot of them have repetitive motion shoulder injuries that have to be treated surgically at some point in their lives. There are also a lot of back issues, even among bases that use proper technique, because of the repeated weight bearing. Limiting the amount they have to lift goes a long way to helping prevent those.

THIS is why bigger girls don't fly on senior teams for most gyms. Bigger gyms with the personnel to put under them might be able to keep them in the air longer, but that's not the reality of the situation most places, and most bigger gyms have plenty of flyers to choose from. It makes sense that they would use the smallest flyer with the skills to hit the stunt. and put the least amount of stress on bases bodies.

Yep I understand, and I did mention that I don't think under 16s should lift weights. But then the question stands that if a child shouldn't be lifting weights as they are too young, should they be lifting a moving weight (e.g. their flyer)? I'm not a doctor so can't answer the question but are we subjecting our kids to too much strain too young? However I'm sure the forces subjected to a kid tumbling would be quite high also, does the gymnastics world have such issues with shoulders/backs etc in later life? I have no answers, just asking the questions haha

If they raised the "floor" of ages for senior 5, you would see generally larger sized flyers on those teams. You would also see less difficulty performed overall.

Yes here's an interesting point. The EU cheer system is a bit different but at my local comps (which granted are either very fluid with rules or have their own rulebooks) I think you can only have a maximum of 3 athletes on a team who are 'out of age', so our senior teams would be 90% 16 years old plus, our juniors would be 90% 12-16 etc etc. I was amazed when I learned 11 year olds could compete as seniors at big US comps.

Because it is faster to replace a flyer than to get a stunt group weight trained. Because a stunt group gets less winded and has more stamina throwing and lifting a light flyer throughout a routine versus a heavier flyer. Because sheer physics tells us that supporting something at the base of something short is easier than supporting something at the base of something tall. Because catching/lifting/holding a heavier flyer repetitively is harder on the shoulders, elbows and wrists and can cause tendinitis.

But is it healthier? If a flyer is happy to base perhaps the transition is smoother, but is it really in the ethos of sport to say "Susie you're too heavy to fly you're basing/backing/fronting or going home." Rather than encouraging your ground crew to do strength training which is long term good for their health providing they are of the correct age?

 

[_MRB]

If they raised the "floor" of ages for senior 5, you would see generally larger sized flyers on those teams. You would also see less difficulty performed overall.

I disagree w this completely. There has been plenty of teams who had high difficulty stunts & pyramids w/ regular sized flyers.

 

[_MRB]

Well if they are following the guidelines gyms should always have appropriately aged flyers on their teams, and I do not believe youth kids are eligible to fly on senior teams....

What I think he/she meant was bringing a 12 year old 4'6 80lbs flyer on a senior team to fly.

Honestly though... imagine a 6'1 guy who is 210lbs of muscle basing a 4'6 80lbs flyer. That's ridiculous. IMO lol

 

[cheer25mom]

Yep I understand, and I did mention that I don't think under 16s should lift weights. But then the question stands that if a child shouldn't be lifting weights as they are too young, should they be lifting a moving weight (e.g. their flyer)? I'm not a doctor so can't answer the question but are we subjecting our kids to too much strain too young? However I'm sure the forces subjected to a kid tumbling would be quite high also, does the gymnastics world have such issues with shoulders/backs etc in later life? I have no answers, just asking the questions haha



Yes here's an interesting point. The EU cheer system is a bit different but at my local comps (which granted are either very fluid with rules or have their own rulebooks) I think you can only have a maximum of 3 athletes on a team who are 'out of age', so our senior teams would be 90% 16 years old plus, our juniors would be 90% 12-16 etc etc. I was amazed when I learned 11 year olds could compete as seniors at big US comps.



But is it healthier? If a flyer is happy to base perhaps the transition is smoother, but is it really in the ethos of sport to say "Susie you're too heavy to fly you're basing/backing/fronting or going home." Rather than encouraging your ground crew to do strength training which is long term good for their health providing they are of the correct age?

Performing in a sport is different than lifting weights to train for it, and puts different stresses on the body.

Yes, gymnastics sees the same problem, and from what I have read, putting kids in the weight room only makes it worse.

healthier? That's a broad question. A lighter flyer definitely puts less stress on a base's body. These kids are already highly conditioned athletes in most cases. At what point is asking them to strength train MORE so that Sally can stay in the air detrimental to their bodies and their performance in the sport?