All-Star Suggestions For Improving Scoring

[newcheerdad]

I would point the same is done with special teams in football. It is one of the least worked on parts, but it can be game changing. The more equal part intricacies in cheer the harder it makes it. I point to the winter Olympics where the american won Gold. He didn't have a quad... but he worked the other parts of the scoresheet and won. Why should such a small part of a routine determine the winner? Why should 30 seconds of stunting determine the better team? Why even do the other 2:00 minutes? Why not make it hard as heck and the full 2:30 matter? There are so many growing pains that cheer is going through that we could look at gymnastics AND ice skating and take a lot of guidance from.

Exactly. Otherwise why not just call it stunting and tumbling and be done with it?

It's not just that we're nowhere near a universal scoring rubric - it's that there isn't even consensus on what the components of the scoring rubric would be and how they should be weighted. It's like saying that football makes field goals worth 3 points one year, 5 points the next year, and then removes them altogether the year following.

 

[hopskipandjump]

Execution score was skewed at Worlds. It wasn't execution as much as it didnt fail.

omg. I have no other words. Maybe I am just too old, but this is ridiculously unacceptable.

 

[cupieqt]

I agree with your reasoning on why coaches might not want others to know where they are lacking. However, if you are any kind of coach, you should be able to build a balanced routine without any areas lacking.

You want to see my scores...that's fine by me. You want to know where you need to improve to beat me...that ok too. Good luck with that

And that's why I think I'm ok with it. I know I'm hitting the scoresheets. The only reason I even qualify it with "I think" is bc I've never experienced it. What I HAVE experienced is coaches from other programs complaining to EPs about how/why we are in first against them and attempting to discredit sections of our routine, etc. I could definitely see how they'd love to be armed with scores to complain even louder. Yes. They try to haggle placements. Yes. It happens a lot.

 

[cupieqt]

Coaches should be able to watch a routine, any routine, and know where that routine is lacking. Cheerleadin is not a sport where you can know a competitors weakness and use it to your advantage (like forcing to the weak side). Each team needs a routine that showcases thru strengths and gets them the max points possible in their weak areas. Knowing that I didn't score well in tumbling and my competition did shouldn't be news to me.

Agree. I think some coaches would be afraid of sharing scores bc they DONT understand scoresheets even if they can "see" where they are lacking.

 

[Deleted member 15]

So, let me understand this, the jump section at Worlds was probably 10 points with a breakdown for difficulty and one for technique? Is that correct? Clearly that should have made a HUGE difference in how teams finally placed, but that didn't happen....

The only part of the 10 points that matter is the range from average to max. If any average team scored 9 points and a great team scored 10 there wasn't much gained by focusing on that part of the score sheet, but if the average team scored 5 and great teams got 10 it would make a real difference. This is a major error people make when trying to read score sheet.

 

[King]

The only part of the 10 points that matter is the range from average to max. If any average team scored 9 points and a great team scored 10 there wasn't much gained by focusing on that part of the score sheet, but if the average team scored 5 and great teams got 10 it would make a real difference. This is a major error people make when trying to read score sheet.

Well put. Seeing a lot of what was done at Worlds I believe the rubrics were more guidelines than actual rubrics.

 

[yojaehs]

The only part of the 10 points that matter is the range from average to max. If any average team scored 9 points and a great team scored 10 there wasn't much gained by focusing on that part of the score sheet, but if the average team scored 5 and great teams got 10 it would make a real difference. This is a major error people make when trying to read score sheet.

I've never heard it explained that way, interesting. But don't MOST score sheets put you in "ranges"? Ex. If you do 3 jumps to back that places you in 9-10 range meaning even average teams should place at minimum 9. So in this case execution would make a drastic difference. But I see what your saying.

 

[CDRCoach17]

1. Make sure judges know the grids for each level. I know that level 5 teams get the most hype, but there are more divisions than level 5.
2. Scores need to be public. Too many companies are getting away with biasness. As sad as I want to say that fair play exist all the way across the board in our industry, it clearly does not.

 

[CDRCoach17]

Well put. Seeing a lot of what was done at Worlds I believe the rubrics were more guidelines than actual rubrics.

I'm sorry and maybe you 2 could help me, but it seemed as though teams were scoring well for attempting certain skills, rather than executing and hitting skills at worlds. Could I be off? I don't want to name gyms, but execution was off at this year's worlds.

 

[King]

I've never heard it explained that way, interesting. But don't MOST score sheets put you in "ranges"? Ex. If you do 3 jumps to back that places you in 9-10 range meaning even average teams should place at minimum 9. So in this case execution would make a drastic difference. But I see what your saying.

So, not to :deadhorse:, but they provide the easiest example. Bangkok obviously did assisted stunts. Day 2 their execution for their stunts was not as good as day 1. To get a 280 they must have scored VERY high in building. I am going off of memory here, but I believe when I got the breakdown for performance one out of a possible 195 points I think they got 190. While I agree they maxed out in pyramid, that means they practically maxed out all the other categories in difficulty and execution. If the rubric was strict then they were mis judged. If the rubric was a guideline, then they were scored correctly based on judge opinion.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I've never heard it explained that way, interesting. But don't MOST score sheets put you in "ranges"? Ex. If you do 3 jumps to back that places you in 9-10 range meaning even average teams should place at minimum 9. So in this case execution would make a drastic difference. But I see what your saying.

It makes difficulty and execution close to equal on Varsity's system. Every Level 5 team should get an 8-9 on difficulty in every category and will get a 0-1 on execution, both 1 point ranges, making them equal in theory.

Some will argue the ranges are smaller because judges won't give zeros or perfect scores making ranges effectively .7-.8 ranges, but that's not a problem I have so I'll let Kingston argue that.

 

[CDRCoach17]

Bottom line, there has to be a way to get difficulty and execution to coincide. Right now that severely lacks in this industry.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Bottom line, there has to be a way to get difficulty and execution to coincide. Right now that severely lacks in this industry.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you mind expanding?

 

[5-6-7-8]

Most often they're local. The state referee's association sponsored the one that I attended, and they do a few around the state each year.

I understand there are far more soccer referees than cheer judges, so the critical mass necessary to have a certification class in every state might not exist.

Shoot, this is something that could be done with an online training / certification (for the basics) and then shadowing at a few competitions to get actual competition experience.

Even online testing of routines could be set that a score needs to be entered within the set limit of time. (Now I understand that judging a video is different than scoring "live" but it would at least offer a way to get started supplemented with the shadow judging.)

 

[King]

It makes difficulty and execution close to equal on Varsity's system. Every Level 5 team should get an 8-9 on difficulty in every category and will get a 0-1 on execution, both 1 point ranges, making them equal in theory.

Some will argue the ranges are smaller because judges won't give zeros or perfect scores making ranges effectively .7-.8 ranges, but that's not a problem I have so I'll let Kingston argue that.

I am completely fine with 0's AND perfects on execution.