All-Star S/o Release Discussion Re: Worlds Athletes

[King]

You are correct, ANYONE can lie and/or cheat, so why should the owner get the benefit of doubt over the parent/cheerleader? The question is why does the rule assume the gym owner, who might not even have children, has higher ethical and moral values than a parent? To the best of my knowledge this is not the case for any other sport that involves a club/travel/all star team. As long as you pay you are free to change. Actually it's called capitalism.

To break it down to the most simple form: a cheer gym is nothing more than a service provider for parents and children. Why should I have to continue to pay you for horrible service and why should you have a right to make me continue to pay for said horrible service OR you can hold my ability to compete hostage?

Example: if I shop at Walmart for 5 years and then suddenly they change their policies and customer service should Walmart be allowed to stop me from going to shop at Target and should I not be allowed to shop for a year?

Don't forget, I'm against gym hopping and believe children should finish what they start but sometimes it isn't the cheerleader or parent who is at fault and I'm just trying to show why the rule is far from perfect in it's current state. If gym owners and coaches had a much tougher path to obtaining USASF certifications and those standards became mandatory for the gym to compete at USASF events it would make the rule much easier to swallow in it's current state.

Ok, lets go through something. An athlete competes on a Worlds team after the date. They hate that gym (for whatever reason) so they leave that gym. They go to another. They are free to compete on any team in the gym level 1-4. They can compete on level 5 restricted no problem! (or level 5 youth and junior age willing). In fact, I think they could even compete on a Worlds team and help them get a bid. But if they didn't get a release they are not allowed to compete at one competition at the end of the season.

And that is completely limiting a customers choice?

 

[yojaehs]

I've mentioned my "what if's" more than once in threads regarding this rule. Let me start by saying when "we" first heard of this rule, we did not like it because we often get kids from other gyms, so our fear was we wouldn't get kids because of this rule. What this rule did was force parents/kids to research EARLIER and we actually got more kids at our try-outs and NOT mid-season, which for us was a positive, so in reality this rule has helped our program. Yes, there are flaws and yes I want them to be fixed HOWEVER what I hope this "rule" has done/will do is encourage parents/kids to do more research. If there is a CHANCE that MAJOR instances can occur chances are they don't "all of a sudden" happen. Do your research and 99.9% of these issues will not occur, yes there is a .1% but hopefully this number will continue to decrease. The great thing about these boards is so often threads arise that make you think and discuss, if this discussion helps ONE person do more research and AVOID an issue I feel that it is a win. Also, it's great to see so many USASF board members, judges and EP's that DO read, maybe they won't change but maybe they will. Keep questioning because even if don't speak up no one can hear you.

 

[REA Dad]

Ok, lets go through something. An athlete competes on a Worlds team after the date. They hate that gym (for whatever reason) so they leave that gym. They go to another. They are free to compete on any team in the gym level 1-4. They can compete on level 5 restricted no problem! (or level 5 youth and junior age willing). In fact, I think they could even compete on a Worlds team and help them get a bid. But if they didn't get a release they are not allowed to compete at one competition at the end of the season.

And that is completely limiting a customers choice?

Simple answer: YES, you are removing the best 20% of their team choice!

Would Target ban me from a fifth of their store selection because I shopped at Walmart last month?

 

[tumbleyoda]

Ok, lets go through something. An athlete competes on a Worlds team after the date. They hate that gym (for whatever reason) so they leave that gym. They go to another. They are free to compete on any team in the gym level 1-4. They can compete on level 5 restricted no problem! (or level 5 youth and junior age willing). In fact, I think they could even compete on a Worlds team and help them get a bid. But if they didn't get a release they are not allowed to compete at one competition at the end of the season.

And that is completely limiting a customers choice?

No it doesn't. But since Worlds has been rightly or wrongly called the best of the best, an experience like no other, etc. I would think most athletes in that top 1% we are talking about that would move for what many are seeing as not legitimate reasons, would do so so they could go to Worlds. Nothing else would suffice for them.

 

[REA Dad]

Yes, there are flaws and yes I want them to be fixed HOWEVER what I hope this "rule" has done/will do is encourage parents/kids to do more research. If there is a CHANCE that MAJOR instances can occur chances are they don't "all of a sudden" happen. Do your research and 99.9% of these issues will not occur, yes there is a .1% but hopefully this number will continue to decrease. The great thing about these boards is so often threads arise that make you think and discuss, if this discussion helps ONE person do more research and AVOID an issue I feel that it is a win. Also, it's great to see so many USASF board members, judges and EP's that DO read, maybe they won't change but maybe they will. Keep questioning because even if don't speak up no one can hear you.

You are correct, research is VERY important and would end most of these problem and much tougher gym and coach credentialing would push the percentage even higher.

 

[juscheerthatisall]

1. Valid reasons: Geographical move, financial reasons (be it family or gym-related, doesn't matter to me,) psychological/emotional reasons, skill-reasons (an athlete feels they can accel faster at another gym.)
2. If an athlkete is kicked off a team, regardless of the reason, no waiver should need to be signed. By removing an athlete from a team, Gym A, in effect, told the athlete "We don't want you on this team." They give up their right to care a thing about the athlete after that.
3. All the same rules should be applicable, across the board.

Disagree with #2 maybe an athlete is getting moved from all girl to coed or from lg to small. The gym may have several reasons. Ex: a flyer on lg senior can't stay in the air, gym decides to switch her with a flyer from coed and give her a male back (idk jus hypothetical) family gets angry and decides to go to neighboring gym, this hurts the gum as they r now short a person on coed. Not saying it's right or wrong but o could understand why a gym wouldn't release them

 

[ShawnsDadof4]

Don't mean to thread Hi-jack but I just spent the last 30 minutes reading this thread from first post to last and this is what I really like about this forum its threads like this .... nerve racking at times yet informative!! As you were everyone this is good reading!! I've put on so many shoes in this debate that I feel like i'm in Footlocker!!

 

[juscheerthatisall]

Similar example, in my county, Recreation cheerleaders are assigned to a team based on where u live. Several kids cheer for different programs maybe they moved, maybe they wanted to be with friends closer to family members home etc. Inorder to compete in the county championship u have to get a waiver from the team u are assigned too. For the mist pt the coaches have never seen the kids don't know them but they have the power to deny the release and the kid will not be allowed to compete. This process happens about 2 wks before competition. Needless to say they never have issue with team hopping or leaving on bad terms ppl work out their issues or stick it out until they cab leave gracefully and gaurantee they will b granted a waiver.

 

[yojaehs]

You are correct, research is VERY important and would end most of these problem and much tougher gym and coach credentialing would push the percentage even higher.

You won't hear any argument from me, but that's a WHOLE OTHER THREAD LOL!

 

[juscheerthatisall]

This rule kind of reminds me of a rule that is in my county for schools.

It says that if you switch from the school you are zoned in to another school that you cannot participate in varsity sports. Howevwr if you move then the rule doesnt apply. I think that it should be this way. If you move far enough to where you cannot commute to the gym the rule shouldnt apply.

And what if u never lived there in the first place? Jersey athlete cheering for md team decides to switch to a new jersey team I mean they can always say "they no longer wanted to make the commute" I think this rule makes since in lower levels but far too many level 5 athletes travel distances to gyms. Now if someone moves from Texas to NC that diff but I just can't see them being denied a waiver

 

[Nothanks]

my guess is what athlete would want to go back to that gym knowing the management would consider doing something like that?

The ones on the "better" level 5 team would stay. And probably lower levels because they still see the "good" athletes practicing and the "better" 5 team doing well, which would probably draw more athletes later on.

 

[debbie]

A rule that only applies to the top 1% in one area that has the most issues... that doesn't make sense? 99% of kids in cheerleading (so level 1-4 and non worlds bound level 5 teams) are not affected by this rule. And, even then, it is for one competition. You are talking about a very small selection of athletes. And it isn't like a child isn't allowed to leave a program THEN go cheer somewhere else on a level 1-4 or non worlds bound team.

I think everyone is thinking this rule is more than it is. How many kids does this ACTUALLY affect? We realize Senior Level 3 this won't matter for, yes?

If its no big deal than get rid of it.

 

[debbie]

There is fear of it being across the board, but at the moment that is only a board fear (that I have heard of). There is no current way to even enforce this rule (manpower and even a tracking system) at all the other levels. As well because there is NO Worlds there is no end punishment to enforce this rule. The USASF runs one competition, and that ONE competition that you are not allowed to compete at if you break the rule doesn't affect most other people. How the heck would this even be enforced?

I think everyone is jumping from A to C. People, it is just WORLDs.

I love the claim "its just Worlds" as if Worlds means nothing to the kids this rule applies to

 

[debbie]

What do you mean?

It was a simple question

 

[ACEDAD]

Let's compare this to the situation at Penn State. I'm not aware of any rules allowing the players to go to another FBS school and compete right away. I think we can all safely say that it's a tragedy and how were they supposed to know, etc.

They can leave and go to an FCS or lower team and play next fall or they can transfer an sit out a year.

Tough situation, but those are the rules.