All-Star Gym Owners Refusing To Sign Release... Appeal Process?..

[mollymags]

I don't think "not knowing" this rule existed is a good reason to think you should be able to appeal. If I get pulled over doing 90 in a 45, do I get let go if I said, "well, I never saw any of the speed limit signs"?

This rule is not new this year. I honestly believe that there are very, very few times when an athlete is not released and the reasoning behind that is unjust. You have 3-5 months at most gyms between the time you tryout and the time you hit the competition floor for the first time... I think that's a good chunk of time to figure out if something is not a good fit. You are not ENTITLED to go to Worlds. It's a privilege. This might come as a shock to a lot of people, but you can still have a fun and fulfilling cheerleading career even if you have to miss out on Worlds.

 

[GreatWhite92]

I don't think "not knowing" this rule existed is a good reason to think you should be able to appeal. If I get pulled over doing 90 in a 45, do I get let go if I said, "well, I never saw any of the speed limit signs"?

This rule is not new this year. I honestly believe that there are very, very few times when an athlete is not released and the reasoning behind that is unjust. You have 3-5 months at most gyms between the time you tryout and the time you hit the competition floor for the first time... I think that's a good chunk of time to figure out if something is not a good fit. You are not ENTITLED to go to Worlds. It's a privilege. This might come as a shock to a lot of people, but you can still have a fun and fulfilling cheerleading career even if you have to miss out on Worlds.

I agree with this however, there should be some kind of appeals process for those few exceptions. Like, for example, a gym closes its doors or you committed to a sr. 5 and all the sudden they change to sr. 4. I think you should be able to appeal that.

 

[12stepCheermom]

So many different scenarios for this, in my opinion. Im going to be blunt about them.

*Does the athlete have a balance of $0.00 at Gym A?
*Did the athlete have bad behavior/attendance issues, etc. at Gym A?
*Did the athlete get recruited by Gym B to leave Gym A?
*Did the athlete (and the family) leave in a positive manner and avoid social media drama and 'gym bashing' while leaving?
*Did the athlete get removed from the team due to skill level?
*Was the athletes safety in jeopardy at Gym A?
*With most tryouts in May or earlier, what could you have possibly discovered AFTER November 1st (Approx. 6 Months at the Gym) that you couldn't wait until the end of the season (Approx. 6 Months at the Gym).

If an athlete has a balance of $0.00, There should not be an issue.

If I remove an athlete from my team due to behavioral issues, attendance, etc. I don't feel obligated to release an athlete to go to my competitor to compete. How is it fair to the 19 other kids on the team that you get to go to Worlds after you caused us so much grief, lack of being a team player, etc.? Call it 'Spite' if you want - Ill call it getting a dose of the real world and protecting my 19 other committed athletes that you let down. Actions have Consequences.

If I find out an athlete got recruited (and when I say find out, I mean cold, hard proof) kiss your release waiver GOODBYE. You might think the grass is greener on the other side, but thats probably only because they fertilize it with BULL$H!T!

If you are on Twitter, Facebook, Texting Other Parents, etc. causing a ruckus on your leave/dismissal, I don't feel obligated to do anything to help your kid out to Worlds with my competitor. If you feel the need to Bash My Program, My Athletes or any other nature.... again.... I don't need to do you any favors. Spite? Call it what you want.

If you get removed/replaced due to someone able to out skill you or your skills are lacking, I am sure you were forewarned, and if you weren't, your probably lacking common sense. Keep your Skills up. No spot should be 'given' - You're spot isn't safe until you hit the Worlds Floor.

If you feel your athlete's safety is in jeopardy, I feel this is one of the only reasons for USASF to step in and release your athlete. Was a coach inappropriate? Did you just get your tuck and you are now working fulls? Reasons for safety are ALWAYS in my opinion a reason for absolute release, however, proving that would cause a ruckus I am sure.

*Most people ignore signs of negativity or wrong doing, and i am just as guilty as the next. However, if you can't figure out shade in 6 months, you chose your own path.

MORAL OF THE STORY: I would find it REALLY COLD HEARTED of anyone who wouldn't release in this scenario, but #LesBeHonest, People have too much pride.

Just to set the tone: This meeting is one week before Jamfest Indy SuperNationals.

Athlete: Can My mom and I have a meeting with you after Practice today?
Coach: Yes
***Meeting***
Coach: Ms. Susie - Your daughter said you would like to have a chat
Mom: Yes, My Suzie and I have been very unhappy at the gym lately.
Coach: What makes you feel this way?
Mom: Well, The Coaches tend to sit and be on their phones during practice as opposed to instructing. Susie is having problems with one of the girls on the team. I do not like that my invoices are always wrong. We feel that Gym B down the street (that already has their bid) will offer a better environment as far as what we are looking for. We may take the season off, but I have to be honest, if a spot were to open up we would probably try it out there. I would like to have a release form signed by you.
Coach: I am sorry you feel that way. I agree that perhaps us sitting and being on our phones is perceived badly and i am sorry to hear about the bullying and errors with your account. Since we have Jamfest SuperNationals this weekend, and then a 4-week break before our next local event, I propose this. Please allow me two weeks to correct the problems you have proposed to me. Lets have another meeting two weeks from today to discuss. If you feel another gym is a better fit, I will absolutely give you a release form. Please know if it doesn't work out, our doors will always be open.
Mom: Thank you. We will absolutely not quit one week before a major competition. We would like to give you a chance to make it right. Thank you.
Coach: No, Thank you.

I really think if a parent came in to talk openly things could be avoided, however, every time I see a release situation.... Momma is hot.... and sometimes out of line and all over Social Media.

Good to hear a coach's perspective. I think the rule on the whole is probably doing its job. I think it's probably just a few marquis (and likely messy) situations on both ends causing the discussions. For those situations, I don't think an appeals process would be a bad thing.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Worlds is not a right. It's a privilege. It's not the USASF's job to ensure you go at any cost. I'm sorry, but I'm somewhere in the middle on this and always will be. What's the point of granting appeals to everyone if the whole purpose is to keep people from hopping midseason? If safety's an issue- shouldn't the greater concern be shutting the gym down? If athlete's think they can get out of a contract by misbehaving on purpose, what does that teach them? Act a fool and get what you want?

I think that every Worlds athlete registered with the USASF (aren't they all supposed to be in order to compete there?) should be automatically mailed/emailed a copy of this rule that they PERSONALLY must sign (with the gym they go to listed at the top) as they register each year. No confirmation of signed copy sent? You aren't eligible to compete for a bid with primary gym's team. Any gym found in violation of this rule forfeits their bid. Make this more directly between the athlete/USASF with the gym involved but not in the middle. That way you ensure the gyms don't skirt around the rule by misinforming people, and athletes are held accountable because they KNOW what they're signing.

 

[OneIntenseMama]

No, the gym owner can kick the athlete out of their gym and still not sign a release for them. If I remember correctly, there was a gym last year that closed its doors during the season and the kids were not able to get a release. This is shameful. As I said before, I completely understand why the rule was put in place. But the wording of the rule is bad and needs to be changed.

This is what happened to my CP last yr long story short she was kicked off a team in the beginning of Jan we were charged full price for comp fees and 75% of the tuition. CP wanted to cheer (hasn't missed more then 3 days since she was 9) she wanted to go to another gym. I made every attempt to make nice while they went as far as telling her old teammates that they couldn't even speak to her (if that isn't bullying IDK what is) I too understand why this rule is in place but it only protects Gym owners it does nothing for our kids. My Cp said it best while we watched worlds live she said in tears "I'm free, the hostage situation is over. They can no longer hold me against my will, I'm free"

 

[Ren]

I don't think "not knowing" this rule existed is a good reason to think you should be able to appeal. If I get pulled over doing 90 in a 45, do I get let go if I said, "well, I never saw any of the speed limit signs"?

This rule is not new this year. I honestly believe that there are very, very few times when an athlete is not released and the reasoning behind that is unjust. You have 3-5 months at most gyms between the time you tryout and the time you hit the competition floor for the first time... I think that's a good chunk of time to figure out if something is not a good fit. You are not ENTITLED to go to Worlds. It's a privilege. This might come as a shock to a lot of people, but you can still have a fun and fulfilling cheerleading career even if you have to miss out on Worlds.

I'm not sure I disagree with you exactly, but I don't think the driving analogy works. You have to take a test to be able to drive a car, and you explicitly know that you have to always know what the limit is where you're driving. There isn't a "cheer mum permit/test", and (as far as I'm aware) there isn't one place, known to everyone, where you can go and find out every rule which could possibly affect you during the season.

So while ignorance isn't exactly an excuse, no one is going to trawl through every possible website to check every part of each rule. Especially when you are given the form to sign by an authority figure who tells you what signing that form means (having never seen the form, I don't know whether it's a blank piece of paper or has "sign here and you won't be able to compete at Worlds this year with another team" written in 72pt type across the top).

I have no dog in this fight (don't think this rule exists in the UK and even if it does I can't see it being an issue, as we generally only have 1 or 2 teams going to Worlds each year), just my typed-without-checking-at-11pm-so-probably-full-of-mistakes thoughts.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Worlds is not a right. It's a privilege. It's not the USASF's job to ensure you go at any cost. I'm sorry, but I'm somewhere in the middle on this and always will be. What's the point of granting appeals to everyone if the whole purpose is to keep people from hopping midseason? If safety's an issue- shouldn't the greater concern be shutting the gym down? If athlete's think they can get out of a contract by misbehaving on purpose, what does that teach them? Act a fool and get what you want?

I think that every Worlds athlete registered with the USASF (aren't they all supposed to be in order to compete there?) should be automatically mailed/emailed a copy of this rule that they PERSONALLY must sign (with the gym they go to listed at the top) as they register each year. No confirmation of signed copy sent? You aren't eligible to compete for a bid with primary gym's team. Any gym found in violation of this rule forfeits their bid. Make this more directly between the athlete/USASF with the gym involved but not in the middle. That way you ensure the gyms don't skirt around the rule by misinforming people, and athletes are held accountable because they KNOW what they're signing.

Love this idea!

 

[Rudags]

Good to hear a coach's perspective. I think the rule on the whole is probably doing its job. I think it's probably just a few marquis (and likely messy) situations on both ends causing the discussions. For those situations, I don't think an appeals process would be a bad thing.

No problem. I hate when people are like "Its about the kids, its about the kids." It absolutely is. Its about those other 19 kids too. Im very clear that I WILL NEVER release a kid (Not that I am a gym owner so it doesnt matter, but hypothetically speaking if I was) unless its handled in a mature manner like I described. No reason you can't finish out a few months of a commitment after you put 8-10 months in already.

I can't find it off hand but it reminds me of the picture I saw going around Facebook of like 1980 where the Teacher is yelling at the parents and kid about poor grades and being in trouble and then it shows like 2013 where the parents are in yelling at the teacher while the kids smiling.

Again, safety issues, no doubt - Leave your Program. However, parents should be parents and make their kids either finish their commitment and/or tell em to sit down and shut up if they choose to leave and don't get released.

As Jen said, its a privilege to go to worlds. Pick your battles wisely.

 

[12stepCheermom]

No problem. I hate when people are like "Its about the kids, its about the kids." It absolutely is. Its about those other 19 kids too. Im very clear that I WILL NEVER release a kid (Not that I am a gym owner so it doesnt matter, but hypothetically speaking if I was) unless its handled in a mature manner like I described. No reason you can't finish out a few months of a commitment after you put 8-10 months in already.

I can't find it off hand but it reminds me of the picture I saw going around Facebook of like 1980 where the Teacher is yelling at the parents and kid about poor grades and being in trouble and then it shows like 2013 where the parents are in yelling at the teacher while the kids smiling.

Again, safety issues, no doubt - Leave your Program. However, parents should be parents and make their kids either finish their commitment and/or tell em to sit down and shut up if they choose to leave and don't get released.

As Jen said, its a privilege to go to worlds. Pick your battles wisely.

I do agree with a lot of what you said. I also believe (no matter how hard) in finishing your commitment because of those other 19 kids. Unless you're 18 already, it's not like you don't have time to make a change later. It's spite (on both sides) that gets intolerable for me. I've seen athletes and owners act completely unprofessional and petty and those are the situations where it would be nice (for both sides) to have the opportunity for some recourse.

 

[Rudags]

I do agree with a lot of what you said. I also believe (no matter how hard) in finishing your commitment because of those other 19 kids. Unless you're 18 already, it's not like you don't have time to make a change later. It's spite (on both sides) that gets intolerable for me. I've seen athletes and owners act completely unprofessional and petty and those are the situations where it would be nice (for both sides) to have the opportunity for some recourse.

Agreed. Hopefully I don't come off as a terrorizing coach who just doesn't care and blames parents and athletes. However, from a coaching perspective, I don't EVER see an athlete or parent leaving with grace. Nor do I see them calling a meeting to resurrect the problem, or at least give that a chance to work. Approach me like a business professional, and you will be treated business professional.

I couldn't walk into my boss's office at the GK Corporate Office (with my mom) raising a b**** fit about a non compete contract (Lets be honest, the release is kind of a non-compete) and expect any kind of results except to get thrown out. Cheer is no difference, it is a business. Period.

 

[ACEDAD]

Agreed. Hopefully I don't come off as a terrorizing coach who just doesn't care and blames parents and athletes. However, from a coaching perspective, I don't EVER see an athlete or parent leaving with grace. Nor do I see them calling a meeting to resurrect the problem, or at least give that a chance to work. Approach me like a business professional, and you will be treated business professional.

I couldn't walk into my boss's office at the GK Corporate Office (with my mom) raising a b**** fit about a non compete contract (Lets be honest, the release is kind of a non-compete) and expect any kind of results except to get thrown out. Cheer is no difference, it is a business. Period.

You've done a remarkable job of explaining your position. And used only one cuss word!

 

[LabbyGirlMOM]

My CP is not at the age where she needs to worry about Worlds yet(even though she does).

But after what I know happened last year at a gym where and athlete left told people she left and put on social media that she left I just do not understand the audacity that the athlete had to say they were kicked and try to get a release.

With that being said isn't it our job as parents to make our children go through the whole season and then move on if they feel like a particular gym is not right for them.

Whether we like it our not cheer is a business and like any business when a contract is broken you can't just up and go to a competitor and say oh this is where I wanna be now. Maybe I am just rambling now or whatever but just my 2 cents for what it is worth

 

[Rudags]

You've done a remarkable job of explaining your position. And used only one cuss word!

2... I said "BS" in my first post. #BetterThanOneOfMyPosts8YearsAgo

 

[mstealtoyou]

You've done a remarkable job of explaining your position. And used only one cuss word!

And those who "knew him then" will know exactly how far Rudag's has come in the "grew up on the Fierceboard" life.

Edited to stay on topic, I'm wondering where is the rule worded? Is it in the USASF things we have to pay and sign every year for our CP or is it paperwork that is distributed to the gyms and they have us sign them at tryouts? Because I've signed them and never seen that on them. (But....I probably am lax because we've been at CEA for many years and we're not worried about ever needing a release. )

 

[njallday]

i hate this rule for the very few kids it truly screws over... but i love it because it is one of the few (if not only) enforceable, black and white rules the USASF has. there is no gray area. you are released or you are not. the end. that makes me happy.