All-Star Evolution?

[The Sixth]

Hopefully this won't become a total crapstorm...

But while watching the Worlds coverage this weekend, I had at least 1 of 2 rumors substantiated during the CEA interview. That being that between semis and finals, they practiced at a local gym, whereas previously I had heard they just practiced out in the field. If that wasn't even a rumor, then ignore my use of it and proceed anyway.

This isn't meant as an attack on CEA, but I'm curious if people consider this an evolution of winning Worlds or using an unfair advantage of your resources. I understand they did have changes prepared if they did not get the scores they liked.

Had they made the sacrifice to practice 4 hours at WWoS or their hotel, I'd say go for it. All gyms can freely do that. Personally, I feel renting out an actual gym doesn't seem as in line with the spirit of the event. Generally I think Worlds is about preparing and bringing your best to Orlando, keeping in mind winning requires routine AND performance.

Now I would never say a team should pigeon hole itself to not have any ability to improve scores between days. So I'm ok tweaking from little to large. But I'm not so sure it's fair to transport a team offsite to an actual gym where making those large tweaks much more plausible, or worse ask a producer to edit your music. As far as I know it's not breaking any rules. It's not as though they asked for the warmup area to be opened up exclusively for them, but would you consider what they did do within reach of the majority of the other gyms competing?

After Worlds everybody was saying CSP is so smart. She changed the routine last year and won, she changed the routine this year and won, this may be the way to win Worlds. I'm not so concerned with that the changes were made, but how they were implemented. Is it really outsmarting somebody, or just making use of resources that IMO, most don't have?

 

[sltAL]

1. This will be a crapstorm lol

2. You do what you gotta do. Change a routine. Drive to a gym. Will all gyms do it? No. Is it wrong for the others to do it? In my opinion, no. Some gyms can't afford to rent out practice ballrooms at their hotels, either. Doesn't make it wrong for the ones who can. That's just one of the advantages of more profitable gyms/coaches. Kinda the same thing as the "mega gym" thread.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I don't think the music thing was unfair at all, more 'fortunate.' I can imagine the turnaround was fairly quick as nobody is really ordering cheer mixes at that moment, so it's a matter of the person being available.

As for the off-site training, I don't know if that's unfair either. Many gyms open their doors to others during the major nationals, it's convenient someone was gracious enough to do it at Worlds.

 

[callmecoach]

I'm not sure it's even that out of reach for any gym to pay to rent practice space for a few hours. And if it is, I think it's safe to assume pretty much every program with a team in LAG had the resources to do the same thing if they'd wanted to.

As for it being against the spirit of the event? Maybe. But I wouldn't be surprised to see this approach used more and more. Worlds scoring is downright unpredictable. After hours, days, months and thousands of dollars spent preparing for this event, isn't it only smart to go in with backup plans? I think it's just that no one really thought of it or went to the extreme that CSP did. It takes guts but that's her style. Throw caution to the wind. Kudos to her IMO.

 

[Deleted member 11199]

I know that some teams practice at gyms offsite the day before they compete in Orlando. For example, smoed, Elite, And Black Ops all practiced together at a gymnastics gym Saturday before competing. I don't see it as an unfair advantage, just utilizing your resources. IMO

 

[cupieqt]

Before day two of a smallish nationals we attended we rented a gym to make some changes to help our day 2 score. (We also ended up renting the gym for longer to replace an injury). We were right behind another team from our area that had rented it out beforehand. I think it's pretty common practice actually. It only cost us a fee that I and the teams parents had no problem taking care of.

I definitely don't think it ruined the spirit of what we were there for which was to win. I think it's smart.


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[justpeachy]

I don't think renting a gym (who knows, maybe it was borrowed) is that big of a feat. CP used to cheer at a small gym that was often rented out to other "no name" gyms during a local comp.

 

[coach12]

the main point to me is they changed things in their routine the night before finals!! i give them all the credit in the world for pulling it off! how many teams would be able to do that?? who cares where they practiced, when they practiced, or how long, or what they paid. no rules were broken.

 

[AndrewSky]

One thing I will just say: it bugs me that people complain about Senior Elite's "30 point increase" because Stars went up by around around the same amount from day 1 to day 2. CEA have always been a risk taking gym. Mainly at NCA and worlds, they take the judges critique and actually apply it to change their score. NCA day 2 in 2012, their score increased dramatically from the changes they instituted from day 1 to day 2. Granted, not many gyms are willing to risk changes in a standard two day competition. But CSP and CEA are, and it worked out for them. Going into day 2, it could've been a complete craptastrophe, but it wasn't... I think it shows that these kids and coaches are willing to do whatever it takes to win.
It could've worked out really badly, but, I commend the athletes for working THAT well under pressure and showing that they can nail the routine, changes and all. Additionally, it shows that the coaches are willing to change their routine and risk something, all to better their score to be crowned with the gold.
I think it's freaking admirable.

 

[redshark]

I don't really see how either of these things could be considered unfair. Sure renting a gym and transportation to practice during Worlds costs more money and organization, but that doesn't qualify it as unfair. Local based gyms already get the option of going back to work in their gym between performances if they want to so I don't know why another gym can be called out for it just because their physical location is further away.
As for the music, if I was a coach and got a comment about that on the scoresheet when I knew I had a shot at winning Worlds, I would definitely call my producer and see if it was possible to change it!
None of it seems sketchy (from what I read here at least) and no one was thrown under the bus so I don't even see this as against the spirit of the competition, just a clean, determined attempt to win Worlds.

 

[gofriars610]

When I cheered freshman year, we practiced at a gym in Daytona prior to actually competing. We weren't a hugely competitive team and we're definitely no Louisville.

You're saying the spirit of the event is "oh, okay, we're in third right now, so we're just going to let Team X who's in first after semis win"...which doesn't make any sense. It's a COMPETITION.

Other sports do this all the time. Ice hockey lines can change period-to-period depending on what is happening.

 

[Jennie]

After day 1 there were a mass amount of teams that practiced for endless hours to get everything perfect for Day 2. Some (most) chose to do this at their hotel/on the grass etc and CEA chose to do it at the gym.
I think given the opportunity plenty gyms would have done the same.
Parents/coaches/athletes don't spend $1000s and endless hours of their time to not take home that golden medal at Worlds because it wasn't "fair" to make changes.
They are there to win.
And they did.

 

[Rhiley]

What changes did they make to their music for finals? I must of missed that...

 

[callmecoach]

What changes did they make to their music for finals? I must of missed that...

Pyramid song

 

[The Sixth]

Some gyms can't afford to rent out practice ballrooms at their hotels, either. Doesn't make it wrong for the ones who can. That's just one of the advantages of more profitable gyms/coaches. Kinda the same thing as the "mega gym" thread.

If this is an acceptable stance, does anybody worry it will further cause more divisiveness between small and large gyms? My assumption is the crossover rules, for example, were created to curb some of the advantage of large gyms. If it isn't already, should the reality just be that large gyms have an advantage over small ones?

Worlds scoring is downright unpredictable. After hours, days, months and thousands of dollars spent preparing for this event, isn't it only smart to go in with backup plans?

After totally learning something new in the Worlds scoring thread, I agree. Again, I'm not against making changes. More about implementing them given equal footing. There is a reason, why gym's don't save money and just practice in parks. If the mantra is win at all costs, then I guess the question is moot.

I definitely don't think it ruined the spirit of what we were there for which was to win. I think it's smart.

I'd consider the goal of Worlds is to win. But I consider the spirit of the event, to bring your best to compete on a level playing field.

Based on the replies so far, it seems that this is a more common occurrence than I thought. I guess only those coaches can answer it. But for a different perspective, cheer.coach mentioned that any of the other LAG teams could have done the same, but they didn't (as far as I'm aware). So were they just not as smart or felt it wasn't the right thing to do?