New York Cheer Allstars

CheerBank said:

I have so many questions about this!

• Who actually verifies that all the athletes on the team were actually released by their old gym? Or does no one care since it is vitually the same organization under a different name?
• How easy is it to become a USASF member as a new gym and how fast can that actually happen?
• Do the coaches need to register as USASF certified coaches for the new gym or can they just "leave" their old program and now be coaching the new one?
• What about the old gym? What if the coaches are still coaching at the old gym (assuming it is still in existence since the whole purpose of this was to get this team back to a bid competition without bringing 50% of the old program) and now the "new" program - doesn't that raise some suspicion in the eyes of the USASF and the EP, or are they just content that they are getting the competition fees from the "new" program, it "satisfies" the 50% rule and that is good enough for them?

It's absolutely ridiculous that this loophole exists. If a program can cheat, be caught and declared ineligible for a bid, and then come back as a different team/program trying for another bid to a competition that requires 50% of the program but now they are actually 100% of their program, there is definitely something wrong with USASF rules. It actually makes a gym who does this look even shadier than if they were just found cheating and declared ineligible for a bid. I hope someone calls these teams out.

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CheerBank said:

I have so many questions about this!

• Who actually verifies that all the athletes on the team were actually released by their old gym? Or does no one care since it is vitually the same organization under a different name?
• How easy is it to become a USASF member as a new gym and how fast can that actually happen?
• Do the coaches need to register as USASF certified coaches for the new gym or can they just "leave" their old program and now be coaching the new one?
• What about the old gym? What if the coaches are still coaching at the old gym (assuming it is still in existence since the whole purpose of this was to get this team back to a bid competition without bringing 50% of the old program) and now the "new" program - doesn't that raise some suspicion in the eyes of the USASF and the EP, or are they just content that they are getting the competition fees from the "new" program, it "satisfies" the 50% rule and that is good enough for them?

It's absolutely ridiculous that this loophole exists. If a program can cheat, be caught and declared ineligible for a bid, and then come back as a different team/program trying for another bid to a competition that requires 50% of the program but now they are actually 100% of their program, there is definitely something wrong with USASF rules. It actually makes a gym who does this look even shadier than if they were just found cheating and declared ineligible for a bid. I hope someone calls these teams out.

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Really? Going to all this trouble for a bid? really??
SMH... Do the parents have a clue all this is going on?
Even if they get the bid and attend Worlds they are going to have a stigma attached... I wouldn't want that for my kid. I really hope for the sake of the kids this all dyes down and they can start fresh next season.

CheerBank said:

I have so many questions about this!

• Who actually verifies that all the athletes on the team were actually released by their old gym? Or does no one care since it is vitually the same organization under a different name?
• How easy is it to become a USASF member as a new gym and how fast can that actually happen?
• Do the coaches need to register as USASF certified coaches for the new gym or can they just "leave" their old program and now be coaching the new one?
• What about the old gym? What if the coaches are still coaching at the old gym (assuming it is still in existence since the whole purpose of this was to get this team back to a bid competition without bringing 50% of the old program) and now the "new" program - doesn't that raise some suspicion in the eyes of the USASF and the EP, or are they just content that they are getting the competition fees from the "new" program, it "satisfies" the 50% rule and that is good enough for them?

It's absolutely ridiculous that this loophole exists. If a program can cheat, be caught and declared ineligible for a bid, and then come back as a different team/program trying for another bid to a competition that requires 50% of the program but now they are actually 100% of their program, there is definitely something wrong with USASF rules. It actually makes a gym who does this look even shadier than if they were just found cheating and declared ineligible for a bid. I hope someone calls these teams out.

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I don't know if that's what they're doing or not. Just to clarify. I don't want to make accusations directly to them, but more just stating that it's being done by others, so there is a loophole.

as of right now they are still classified as New York cheer for this weekend at Reach the Beach. they are still listed as a worlds team but moved up to medium... does that make them eligible for a bid? I'm sorry this is just all wrong to me.


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platinumcheerashley said:

as of right now they are still classified as New York cheer for this weekend at Reach the Beach. they are still listed as a worlds team but moved up to medium... does that make them eligible for a bid? I'm sorry this is just all wrong to me.


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platinumcheerashley They were told they were not eligible for a bid in the SMALL SENIOR division this year, so moving up to medium makes them eligible for a worlds bid at RTB. USASF actually gave them options for other aways to obtain a bid for this season.

platinumcheerashley said:

as of right now they are still classified as New York cheer for this weekend at Reach the Beach. they are still listed as a worlds team but moved up to medium... does that make them eligible for a bid? I'm sorry this is just all wrong to me.


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platinumcheerashley They were told they were not eligible for a bid in the SMALL SENIOR division this year, so moving up to medium makes them eligible for a worlds bid at RTB. USASF actually gave them options for other aways to obtain a bid for this season.

cheer41cheer4all said:

platinumcheerashley They were told they were not eligible for a bid in the SMALL SENIOR division this year, so moving up to medium makes them eligible for a worlds bid at RTB. USASF actually gave them options for other aways to obtain a bid for this season.

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honestly that seems crazy to me. cheating is cheating wether it was purposely or "accidentally" but you need to take responsibility and take the punishment.. and not cheat the punishment you had for cheating!


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platinumcheerashley said:

honestly that seems crazy to me. cheating is cheating wether it was purposely or "accidentally" but you need to take responsibility and take the punishment.. and not cheat the punishment you had for cheating!


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I don't think you or anyone else realizes that it is passed the point of what the coaches and gym owners did wrong in lying/cheating. The athletes can't be held responsible for that actions that took place. At this point it seems to me that the program is doing anything they can to get this team to worlds because it is what the athletes want, not because they got caught cheating and want to get around it.

platinumcheerashley said:

honestly that seems crazy to me. cheating is cheating wether it was purposely or "accidentally" but you need to take responsibility and take the punishment.. and not cheat the punishment you had for cheating!


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platinumcheerashley Im just saying this as an example, but put yourself in their shoes. I know your organizations level 5 team has received a bid and is attending worlds this season..not to mention you're also from NY.. imagine the pain and suffering the athletes would feel if everything they worked so hard for all season had been taken away from them over something they had no control over. Im sure every athlete on that team would want to do anything they could just to go to worlds. It's what every level 5 team desires and that you can't deny. As a parent or coach or gym owner seeing the hurt in these athletes eyes and knowing all that they have worked for -- don't you think they would all do anything they could to get the team to worlds for the teams sake, not the programs sake?..

cheer41cheer4all said:

platinumcheerashley Im just saying this as an example, but put yourself in their shoes. I know your organizations level 5 team has received a bid and is attending worlds this season..not to mention you're also from NY.. imagine the pain and suffering the athletes would feel if everything they worked so hard for all season had been taken away from them over something they had no control over. Im sure every athlete on that team would want to do anything they could just to go to worlds. It's what every level 5 team desires and that you can't deny. As a parent or coach or gym owner seeing the hurt in these athletes eyes and knowing all that they have worked for -- don't you think they would all do anything they could to get the team to worlds for the teams sake, not the programs sake?..

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I know I'm from New York,,, I have friends from the team ad more than anything I want the athletes to go to worlds! they have worked very hard for that, but i just have a slight problem with the way USASF told them how to get around it. nothing about the gym or the program or the coaches personally because I know most of them...


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quitthedrama said:

Halle Rosen there is a big difference between going on the "attack" and responding to a thread that someone else posted. I am very sorry if any of the athletes on this team had no idea of what happened last year and have hurt feelings because of the actions of their gym owner. But the truth is the gym DID cheat - whether they won or not has nothing to do with the fact that they still need to follow rules. I did not start this thread - the gym owner did. Fierceboard is meant for discussion and opinion, so when a gym owner starts a thread and tries to make excuses they have opened themselves and their athletes up for negative comments and criticism - if you have an issue with it you should address it with the gym owner. Had an athlete started the thread I still would have responded because I feel very strongly about the issue of cheating, but I would have worded things different knowing they were more of a victim than a guilty party.

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In regards to the start of the thread..I don't think the gym owner made an excuse, they simply stated they made a MISTAKE. And i'll take it, an apology is enough. Just like most people do, they're only human. And while the coaches/gym owners may be more of a guilty party -- it is the athletes who ARE victims. Maybe it wouldn't be such an issue with Halle Rosen if you weren't plastered all over every thread that has to do with this team and your user name wasn't quitthedrama because you keep stirring the pot. No offense to you or anyone else who feels the way that you do (starting an argument is not my intention so please don't take it the wrong way) but why is everyone dwelling so hard on this? The situation is over and done with for about 2 weeks now I don't see the need to continue to talk about the programs mistakes? Yes they did something wrong and yes they "cheated" but they are moving on and doing all that they can for the athletes. Whether you agree or not, nothing anyone says is going to change the situation. MOVE ON and quit the drama..

cheermommy98 said:

I feel bad for these kids however where are the parents how do you belong to a cheer program that does this? It is not the 1st time ,similar things have happened. At what point do you as a parent say enough? I find cheating and lieing the worst traits and wuld never want my child associated with them and there is a saying fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me! So these gym owners must really know how to fool these parents! Worst is who suffers is the children. I have heard numerous time that this gym has been called out for different infractions? When does it end?

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This is why people do not want to let it just go away, cheer41cheer4all and Halle Rosen. People are sick of gyms cheating and then saying "oops! I did not understand the rules. My bad. I'm sorry". I understand that your athletes are hurt by all of this but maybe their hurt and anger - and yours - should be directed at the owners and coaches for creating this situation rather than at people on this board.

Am I the only one who was so confused as to where all this came from? Talk about thread coming out from left..mat panel?

That being said, I'm not totally kosher with the USASF being "here's our rules, now here's how you get around them."

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kristenthegreat said:

Am I the only one who was so confused as to where all this came from? Talk about thread coming out from left..mat panel?

That being said, I'm not totally kosher with the USASF being "here's our rules, now here's how you get around them."

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It didn't come out of nowhere, it was going on in the Spirit Fest CT thread where they got their bid two weeks ago and then had it taken away from them.

The NY Cheer owner couldn't post in that thread as a newbie, so he or she posted here.

I can sympathize with the athletes who are hurt that their bid was taken away from them due to a LEGITIMATE error last year at Worlds, BUT I can't believe that these parents would be ok with the mentality of 'getting to worlds, no matter what has to be done', ie change divisons, change gym names, getting around the USASF rules of disqualification for Worlds this year, IF this is indeed what is happening. Will the scarlet letter these athletes will be wearing if they compete at Worlds be worth it in the end? Their tarnished reputation doesn't just get forgotten about, not even next year; there will be memories of this and their gym, and lets face it, it will probably affect their level 5 team next year. I would look at this as: is this all worth it in the end?

And I agree, this coach decided to post a thread about this and opened it up for DISCUSSION, and on Fierce Board, a discussion you will get.