All-Star 2016 Scoring...thoughts???

[icequeen]

Whats your opinion on bobbles not counting as deductions? Should teams be saying they "hit 0" if they had bobbles? Do you thing they should count bobbles as deductions?

I believe there is already a thread on this, use the search tool.

 

[Infinitytsunamis2012]

I believe there is already a thread on this, use the search tool.

Actually there isn't one specifically for bobbles....I used the search tool. Other posts are about other new scoring opinions.

 

[KPep]

So far, my level 5 scorings are consistent. Nothing to complain about. But the one going for a bid went to another province to compete and the raw score was really lower than usual.

 

[kksmom]

Well, I'll just leave this here.

If you don't believe where you're from and what team you're on (brand/gym) doesn't matter, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Stingrays placements at Cheersport vs. NCA (1 week apart, big national in their backyard vs. a few other big gym's backyard).

I LOVE YOU!!!
THANK YOU for posting what I did not have a big enough pair to post!!!

 

[_MRB]

i know execution (of course) plays a role in scoring, but my thing is (not mentioning any team names or divisions) some teams will lack skills in something... like tumbling, but have great execution and another team will have "good enough" execution, but more advanced tumbling or stunts or something. How is it that the team with better execution scored higher than the team with more advanced skills, shouldn't they have evened out or something?

 

[tumbleyoda]

i know execution (of course) plays a role in scoring, but my thing is (not mentioning any team names or divisions) some teams will lack skills in something... like tumbling, but have great execution and another team will have "good enough" execution, but more advanced tumbling or stunts or something. How is it that the team with better execution scored higher than the team with more advanced skills, shouldn't they have evened out or something?

I think this has been the conundrum cheerleading has faced for many years. Often a team with great execution is also seen as playing it safe. A team with crazy difficulty is seen as risking safety. IMO if appropriate credit was given for difficulty AND deductions were given for technique instead of giving technique a pass because it was impressive or so difficult, it would even everything out.

Case point 1. A couple week I had an athlete competing a new pass in power tumbling. Normally the pass she throws ROBHSx3 Tuck is a 1.2 difficulty. She competed a ROBHS Whip BHS Tuck which is a 1.4 difficulty. She received the points for difficulty, but she was nailed on technique because she threw what I call a cheer whip - BHS with no hands feet behind you when you land absorb and push thru. The pass is connected but not powerful or dynamic. The deductions were appropriate. So even though the athlete and parents were disappointed in the score, they could celebrate that she competed a new pass - one in which she missed at her last competition and then suffered an injury from school cheer which kept her out of practice for 2 months.

Case Point 2. A few years ago we had a Level 5 team compete at a major event with Worlds bids on the line. We already had an At large bid going into the event and had no expectation of getting the full paid bid. Day 1 we hit perfect. Zero deductions. Nothing but praise on score sheets. Sitting in first place. Again - no expectation on our part. We knew what teams should win the division and we were just happy we hit. We even got called to the judges stand because we had not filled out a bid declaration for that event.

Day 2 we hit perfect again. Zero deductions. But score was markedly lower. Again we had no problem with placements. We knew who would win if they hit. They didn't hit day 1, they hit day 2. But with our score being lower than Day 1 naturally we asked what was going on. We were told by EP that it was decided by them and the judges after Day 1 that we were overscored on day 1 so they had to adjust on day 2. The reason being that our routine while Level 5 was not as difficult as others in the division. That if they had taken that into account we would of been much lower on Day 1. The EP said to our face we should be lucky that we even had a bid and that we were the only Small Coed team with no BHS to Doubles going to Worlds. That our routine was too easy so of course we could hit it perfectly. Actually we had 7 BHS to Doubles but we did not throw them because we went for the technique score instead of the difficulty score. We knew we would get deductions if we threw them so we went with the best routine with aiming for highest perfection and technique. Secondly if we were told after Day 1 it was an issue that would drop our score so much, and that they would not apply the same standard to everyone in our division and re-score them as well, we would of told the athletes that had them to throw them instead of the BHSx2 Full. That knocked us out of a full paid Worlds bid not only at the event but when they found an extra bid to give. If the scoring was right across the board we would of had a paid Worlds Bid that year.

We haven't been back to that event or any event run by that particular person. Every time their reps call us to come back we tell them when we have squad BHS to Doubles we will be back and maybe we will get scored right.

This is one of the reasons I say getting it right matters. To somebody it was just an event. Fight again another day. To somebody else the right team won so what does it matter. To somebody else it would be lets go back and prove them wrong, when in reality we were right the first time. To us that would of been a Full paid bid, the first in our region to have one and a major accomplishment for our program.

 

[_MRB]

I think this has been the conundrum cheerleading has faced for many years. Often a team with great execution is also seen as playing it safe. A team with crazy difficulty is seen as risking safety. IMO if appropriate credit was given for difficulty AND deductions were given for technique instead of giving technique a pass because it was impressive or so difficult, it would even everything out.

Case point 1. A couple week I had an athlete competing a new pass in power tumbling. Normally the pass she throws ROBHSx3 Tuck is a 1.2 difficulty. She competed a ROBHS Whip BHS Tuck which is a 1.4 difficulty. She received the points for difficulty, but she was nailed on technique because she threw what I call a cheer whip - BHS with no hands feet behind you when you land absorb and push thru. The pass is connected but not powerful or dynamic. The deductions were appropriate. So even though the athlete and parents were disappointed in the score, they could celebrate that she competed a new pass - one in which she missed at her last competition and then suffered an injury from school cheer which kept her out of practice for 2 months.

Case Point 2. A few years ago we had a Level 5 team compete at a major event with Worlds bids on the line. We already had an At large bid going into the event and had no expectation of getting the full paid bid. Day 1 we hit perfect. Zero deductions. Nothing but praise on score sheets. Sitting in first place. Again - no expectation on our part. We knew what teams should win the division and we were just happy we hit. We even got called to the judges stand because we had not filled out a bid declaration for that event.

Day 2 we hit perfect again. Zero deductions. But score was markedly lower. Again we had no problem with placements. We knew who would win if they hit. They didn't hit day 1, they hit day 2. But with our score being lower than Day 1 naturally we asked what was going on. We were told by EP that it was decided by them and the judges after Day 1 that we were overscored on day 1 so they had to adjust on day 2. The reason being that our routine while Level 5 was not as difficult as others in the division. That if they had taken that into account we would of been much lower on Day 1. The EP said to our face we should be lucky that we even had a bid and that we were the only Small Coed team with no BHS to Doubles going to Worlds. That our routine was too easy so of course we could hit it perfectly. Actually we had 7 BHS to Doubles but we did not throw them because we went for the technique score instead of the difficulty score. We knew we would get deductions if we threw them so we went with the best routine with aiming for highest perfection and technique. Secondly if we were told after Day 1 it was an issue that would drop our score so much, and that they would not apply the same standard to everyone in our division and re-score them as well, we would of told the athletes that had them to throw them instead of the BHSx2 Full. That knocked us out of a full paid Worlds bid not only at the event but when they found an extra bid to give. If the scoring was right across the board we would of had a paid Worlds Bid that year.

We haven't been back to that event or any event run by that particular person. Every time their reps call us to come back we tell them when we have squad BHS to Doubles we will be back and maybe we will get scored right.

This is one of the reasons I say getting it right matters. To somebody it was just an event. Fight again another day. To somebody else the right team won so what does it matter. To somebody else it would be lets go back and prove them wrong, when in reality we were right the first time. To us that would of been a Full paid bid, the first in our region to have one and a major accomplishment for our program.

i definitely understand what you're saying.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I think this has been the conundrum cheerleading has faced for many years. Often a team with great execution is also seen as playing it safe. A team with crazy difficulty is seen as risking safety. IMO if appropriate credit was given for difficulty AND deductions were given for technique instead of giving technique a pass because it was impressive or so difficult, it would even everything out.

Case point 1. A couple week I had an athlete competing a new pass in power tumbling. Normally the pass she throws ROBHSx3 Tuck is a 1.2 difficulty. She competed a ROBHS Whip BHS Tuck which is a 1.4 difficulty. She received the points for difficulty, but she was nailed on technique because she threw what I call a cheer whip - BHS with no hands feet behind you when you land absorb and push thru. The pass is connected but not powerful or dynamic. The deductions were appropriate. So even though the athlete and parents were disappointed in the score, they could celebrate that she competed a new pass - one in which she missed at her last competition and then suffered an injury from school cheer which kept her out of practice for 2 months.

Case Point 2. A few years ago we had a Level 5 team compete at a major event with Worlds bids on the line. We already had an At large bid going into the event and had no expectation of getting the full paid bid. Day 1 we hit perfect. Zero deductions. Nothing but praise on score sheets. Sitting in first place. Again - no expectation on our part. We knew what teams should win the division and we were just happy we hit. We even got called to the judges stand because we had not filled out a bid declaration for that event.

Day 2 we hit perfect again. Zero deductions. But score was markedly lower. Again we had no problem with placements. We knew who would win if they hit. They didn't hit day 1, they hit day 2. But with our score being lower than Day 1 naturally we asked what was going on. We were told by EP that it was decided by them and the judges after Day 1 that we were overscored on day 1 so they had to adjust on day 2. The reason being that our routine while Level 5 was not as difficult as others in the division. That if they had taken that into account we would of been much lower on Day 1. The EP said to our face we should be lucky that we even had a bid and that we were the only Small Coed team with no BHS to Doubles going to Worlds. That our routine was too easy so of course we could hit it perfectly. Actually we had 7 BHS to Doubles but we did not throw them because we went for the technique score instead of the difficulty score. We knew we would get deductions if we threw them so we went with the best routine with aiming for highest perfection and technique. Secondly if we were told after Day 1 it was an issue that would drop our score so much, and that they would not apply the same standard to everyone in our division and re-score them as well, we would of told the athletes that had them to throw them instead of the BHSx2 Full. That knocked us out of a full paid Worlds bid not only at the event but when they found an extra bid to give. If the scoring was right across the board we would of had a paid Worlds Bid that year.

We haven't been back to that event or any event run by that particular person. Every time their reps call us to come back we tell them when we have squad BHS to Doubles we will be back and maybe we will get scored right.

This is one of the reasons I say getting it right matters. To somebody it was just an event. Fight again another day. To somebody else the right team won so what does it matter. To somebody else it would be lets go back and prove them wrong, when in reality we were right the first time. To us that would of been a Full paid bid, the first in our region to have one and a major accomplishment for our program.

That really pisses me off. And I love your snark.

 

[FaithOverFear!]

I think this has been the conundrum cheerleading has faced for many years. Often a team with great execution is also seen as playing it safe. A team with crazy difficulty is seen as risking safety. IMO if appropriate credit was given for difficulty AND deductions were given for technique instead of giving technique a pass because it was impressive or so difficult, it would even everything out.

Case point 1. A couple week I had an athlete competing a new pass in power tumbling. Normally the pass she throws ROBHSx3 Tuck is a 1.2 difficulty. She competed a ROBHS Whip BHS Tuck which is a 1.4 difficulty. She received the points for difficulty, but she was nailed on technique because she threw what I call a cheer whip - BHS with no hands feet behind you when you land absorb and push thru. The pass is connected but not powerful or dynamic. The deductions were appropriate. So even though the athlete and parents were disappointed in the score, they could celebrate that she competed a new pass - one in which she missed at her last competition and then suffered an injury from school cheer which kept her out of practice for 2 months.

Case Point 2. A few years ago we had a Level 5 team compete at a major event with Worlds bids on the line. We already had an At large bid going into the event and had no expectation of getting the full paid bid. Day 1 we hit perfect. Zero deductions. Nothing but praise on score sheets. Sitting in first place. Again - no expectation on our part. We knew what teams should win the division and we were just happy we hit. We even got called to the judges stand because we had not filled out a bid declaration for that event.

Day 2 we hit perfect again. Zero deductions. But score was markedly lower. Again we had no problem with placements. We knew who would win if they hit. They didn't hit day 1, they hit day 2. But with our score being lower than Day 1 naturally we asked what was going on. We were told by EP that it was decided by them and the judges after Day 1 that we were overscored on day 1 so they had to adjust on day 2. The reason being that our routine while Level 5 was not as difficult as others in the division. That if they had taken that into account we would of been much lower on Day 1. The EP said to our face we should be lucky that we even had a bid and that we were the only Small Coed team with no BHS to Doubles going to Worlds. That our routine was too easy so of course we could hit it perfectly. Actually we had 7 BHS to Doubles but we did not throw them because we went for the technique score instead of the difficulty score. We knew we would get deductions if we threw them so we went with the best routine with aiming for highest perfection and technique. Secondly if we were told after Day 1 it was an issue that would drop our score so much, and that they would not apply the same standard to everyone in our division and re-score them as well, we would of told the athletes that had them to throw them instead of the BHSx2 Full. That knocked us out of a full paid Worlds bid not only at the event but when they found an extra bid to give. If the scoring was right across the board we would of had a paid Worlds Bid that year.

We haven't been back to that event or any event run by that particular person. Every time their reps call us to come back we tell them when we have squad BHS to Doubles we will be back and maybe we will get scored right.

This is one of the reasons I say getting it right matters. To somebody it was just an event. Fight again another day. To somebody else the right team won so what does it matter. To somebody else it would be lets go back and prove them wrong, when in reality we were right the first time. To us that would of been a Full paid bid, the first in our region to have one and a major accomplishment for our program.

Do you mind saying what EP this is? That's not very good business at all....

 

[tumbleyoda]

Do you mind saying what EP this is? That's not very good business at all....

It isn't good business but it is the way they have it set up. All they had to do was correct the scoring on everyone in that division on Day 1 or let us know on Day 1 or the first thing on Day 2 before we competed and we could of adapted.

As it was they gave us no chance to do that. They assumed we had no more skill than what we put on the floor. We did not get the benefit of the doubt that we could score any higher than what they already gave us. They can justify their bad business by throwing it back on the judges then hitting the judges with a be quiet or else you won't work for us again order. At this point since it is a few years past, saying the EP name won't correct a thing. Plus I know they read these boards or have staffers read it for them and report to them any disgruntled word. Even though I am just a tumbling coach I want my cheer teams affected too bad by the things I say - which does happen. I promise though when I retire completely from the cheer side, I am naming every name and person for sure.

That really pisses me off. And I love your snark.

Trust me it still pisses us off. Anytime we think about team placements, anytime we see teams in Level 5 that we can outscore even though we are in Restricted 5, anytime we see tomfoolery going on, anytime we see rival gyms saying how they were first to get a paid bid and we know we would of been first by a couple of years if they just owned up and fixed the issue. Ugh.