Battling Tryout Issues

[cheergrace2001]

Hello. I just found this site and decided to jump on to get some advice. Good, or bad.

I have a daughter who is a sophomore, and has been cheering since the 7th grade. Her first year as a freshman, she made the JV team, and she is currently a Varsity cheerleader. The school held tryouts last month, and she made the JV squad. It was quite a shock because she is one of only about 8 of 31 candidates that tried out that can tumble, and has decent jumps. They only took 16 Varsity cheerleaders, and 3 will be incoming freshman. I honestly felt more than confident that she would make Varsity again, and felt something wasn't right when they posted the results. Our school hires outside judges so that the candidates won't know the judges, and vice versa. It has come to light that one of the judges was an instructor at a 3-day summer cheer camp (this past summer) that was held at the junior high school for the junior high cheerleaders. I might also add, that all of the junior high cheerleaders that tried out made either Varsity or JV, while 8 other candidates (some that are currently on JV) did not make a squad at all. There are many issues that I think are relevant to the outcome of the tryouts, and am currently trying to make the administration at the school see this. One of the issues is that the outside company that was hired states that their judges will not judge if they have previous affiliation through a cheer camp or other cheer related activities. I understand that if it had been a camp that includes 40 other schools, it is not as likely for a judge to recognize candidates. However, this is a 3-day camp that includes two instructors and 16 cheerleaders. Does anyone have any advice for me?

 

[CheerItFullOut]

Hello. I just found this site and decided to jump on to get some advice. Good, or bad.

I have a daughter who is a sophomore, and has been cheering since the 7th grade. Her first year as a freshman, she made the JV team, and she is currently a Varsity cheerleader. The school held tryouts last month, and she made the JV squad. It was quite a shock because she is one of only about 8 of 31 candidates that tried out that can tumble, and has decent jumps. They only took 16 Varsity cheerleaders, and 3 will be incoming freshman. I honestly felt more than confident that she would make Varsity again, and felt something wasn't right when they posted the results. Our school hires outside judges so that the candidates won't know the judges, and vice versa. It has come to light that one of the judges was an instructor at a 3-day summer cheer camp (this past summer) that was held at the junior high school for the junior high cheerleaders. I might also add, that all of the junior high cheerleaders that tried out made either Varsity or JV, while 8 other candidates (some that are currently on JV) did not make a squad at all. There are many issues that I think are relevant to the outcome of the tryouts, and am currently trying to make the administration at the school see this. One of the issues is that the outside company that was hired states that their judges will not judge if they have previous affiliation through a cheer camp or other cheer related activities. I understand that if it had been a camp that includes 40 other schools, it is not as likely for a judge to recognize candidates. However, this is a 3-day camp that includes two instructors and 16 cheerleaders. Does anyone have any advice for me?

1. I think it’s REALLY hard for a camp instructor to really get to know/favor ...let along really remember kids from a cheer camp... (what do they care of such and such kid makes it over another just because they had a 3 day camp with them and taught them some material) I compare your camp relationship favoritism scenario to You walking into a small boutique you frequented (every day for about two weeks) and then came back in a year later asking for discount on a purchase because you’re a “preferred customer”... there’s no realistic “relationship” established there and I doubt out of all the customers that shop the boutique your shopping frequency would even be recalled.
I teach 3-4 day camps all the time but don’t ask me to recall any particular participant to where it would affect me scoring them fairly at an event... if I recall them at all.
2. I think you should ask the coach for feedback on why she didn’t make it on Varsity (with your daughter present) ... going to Admin really doesn’t do much other than notifies the coach, through administration that your concerned..which is something you should be directly doing with the coach. If this has been done... that’s really where it stops. Admin doesn’t pick the team nor do they really want to go through changing the team because you or others feel your kid has been done an injustice when cheerleading is overall a very subjective sport. What YOU might feel was your child’s very best and was perfect performance (skill set aside) another can argue wasn’t.
I also feel we as cheerleaders deman respect and want to be treated like a sport but still insist on NOT acting like one. If we were REALLY a sport choosing a team would not involve outside sources and would be at the discretion of the coach and the needs of the team. Bottom line... if a kid doesn’t make it, there’s usually a valid reason. No coach does NOT want to have a valueable athlete on their team “just because”.
At the end of the day... you wanted it, it didn’t happen, work harder to ensure it happens... come back next year undoubtably unstoppable and make them regret not taking you the first time.
3. Last, this might be a good time to teach your daughter how to deal with adversity. Sometimes NOT getting what we want is the BEST thing that could ever happen to us. I became a decently successful coach because I started out as a pretty crummy cheerleader. (Not saying your daughter is crummy by any means) however, I was!!! I didn’t make my desired team my Junior Year of high school and that fueled me into all star. I from then began to study everything cheer... I became driven to “know and learn” more about this sport I thought that defeated me...
I spent two years of my teenage life completely aggrivated and angered by my high school cheer coach only to grow into loving and appreciating her for not putting me on a squad with a level of kids I truly didn’t belong in just to “spare my feelings”...
I don’t know where she is today, but I’d say 85% of my success is to that coach that didn’t give me a false perspective of where I really WAS so I could grow to be where I am today.

 

[dawgshow]

Is your daughter upset?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cheergrace2001]

Thank you for responding! Almost everything you said, I agree with. Yes, I did speak to the coach and had come to the conclusion that maybe- just maybe, my daughter's tryout didn't go as well as the others. It would have to of been really bad, and the other's really good. Not the case. I'll also add that it's a very political district- small town, so-and-so's kid, blah, blah, blah. It's a pretty rural area, so maybe not many options for judges either. I guess my main point is that the judge shouldn't have judged, according to the rules set forth by the judging company. Even the manager of the company said that there is certainly more of a chance that a judge would recognize them based on the type of clinic that was held. I'll also add that I work in sales, and I have had customers that came in for 30 minutes and come back a year later and I can remember specifics about them. It happens quite regularly.

I have read quite a few of these posts and threads which is why I decided to post here. I've seen people admitting that the judges scores are discarded, I've also read articles of judges being bribed to change scores. During this tryout, the candidates came out of their tryout, recognized the judge and said the judge's name. I feel that there are rules for a reason and the judge broke them.

 

[cheergrace2001]

Is your daughter upset?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She was very upset the night the results were posted and could not understand either. I asked her if she wanted me to try and get to the bottom of it, and she does.

 

[catlady]

I'll preface this by saying I think the likelihood that you'll "get to the bottom of this" is very small. My parenting style is, at HS age it's appropriate for my child to approach their coach and ask what they could have done better at tryouts to have made the team of their choice. After that, I want my child to thank them for their comments and accept it. You said "there are many issues that I think are relevant to the outcome of the tryouts, and am currently trying to make the administration at the school see this." If you have provided the appropriate people with the information you feel needs to be addressed, then it is time to let them decide if there was an issue, and let it go. Politics, favoritism, and mistakes happen, but the way we react and respond often ends up having more weight on the situation than anything else.

 

[cheergrace2001]

I'll preface this by saying I think the likelihood that you'll "get to the bottom of this" is very small. My parenting style is, at HS age it's appropriate for my child to approach their coach and ask what they could have done better at tryouts to have made the team of their choice. After that, I want my child to thank them for their comments and accept it. You said "there are many issues that I think are relevant to the outcome of the tryouts, and am currently trying to make the administration at the school see this." If you have provided the appropriate people with the information you feel needs to be addressed, then it is time to let them decide if there was an issue, and let it go. Politics, favoritism, and mistakes happen, but the way we react and respond often ends up having more weight on the situation than anything else.

Absolutely true! My efforts will most likely be for nothing. That is what I made my kid aware of from the beginning, mainly because of the school district in which we live in. We spoke to one of the coaches and were very cordial with her, as was she. The other chose not to meet with us. The problem is, neither of these coaches have any cheer coach experience whatsoever- none. Only one of them was a cheerleader in high school. They were under the impression that the junior high went away to camp with other schools. Which is why they brushed off the possibility of the judge knowing the girls. I've spoken to other cheer coaches that said that had they been made aware of the judge instructing them at summer camp, they would not have continued with the tryouts. By the way, the coaches were made aware of this information DURING tryouts. The constitution at our school states that there should be no judge hired that has taught or tutored any candidate during the current school year. A cheerleader's season starts as soon as results are posted until the last day of the following school year. Not to mention the judges agreement with the judging company before taking the job. I just feel that right is right and wrong is wrong.

No school wants to admit they were wrong, and would rather sweep it under the rug. I get that, but why aren't rules followed anymore? Why can't people just do what's right? I can tell you without a doubt, that my kid should have made that squad. I know, I know, you've heard that a million times. I also know that bad tryouts happen. I honestly don't think that happened.

 

[CheerItFullOut]

Thank you for responding! Almost everything you said, I agree with. Yes, I did speak to the coach and had come to the conclusion that maybe- just maybe, my daughter's tryout didn't go as well as the others. It would have to of been really bad, and the other's really good. Not the case. I'll also add that it's a very political district- small town, so-and-so's kid, blah, blah, blah. It's a pretty rural area, so maybe not many options for judges either. I guess my main point is that the judge shouldn't have judged, according to the rules set forth by the judging company. Even the manager of the company said that there is certainly more of a chance that a judge would recognize them based on the type of clinic that was held. I'll also add that I work in sales, and I have had customers that came in for 30 minutes and come back a year later and I can remember specifics about them. It happens quite regularly.

I have read quite a few of these posts and threads which is why I decided to post here. I've seen people admitting that the judges scores are discarded, I've also read articles of judges being bribed to change scores. During this tryout, the candidates came out of their tryout, recognized the judge and said the judge's name. I feel that there are rules for a reason and the judge broke them.

That’s Valid... the company shouldn’t have sent that judge... therefore perhaps every score given by that particular judge should be thrown out and deemed invalid... and re calculate totals based on remaining judges scores... but keep in mind what remains could work for you or leave your daughter without a position at all... who knows if that particular judge didn’t favor anyone at all and in fact scored your daughter higher than the other judge?
Only other option is RE do tryout all over... but what if you get the the same result, will you and your daughter at that point be willing to accept the results of that tryout. (You sound very reasonable.. I’m assuming you would)... but it’s a bit of a slippery slope not to mention your daughter would now have to cheer with a bunch of kids who had to re do their entire tryout because she established (perhaps rightfully so) that there was an error in the judging...
I believe it might be setting her up for scrutiny.
What’s right is right and there’s nothing wrong with ensuring that your daughter had her “fair” shot...
But kids & probably their parents (if the mentality is as you say it is) will likely not see it this way and she has to co exist with them for a whole season if she intends to accept ANY position.

 

[CheerItFullOut]

I'll preface this by saying I think the likelihood that you'll "get to the bottom of this" is very small. My parenting style is, at HS age it's appropriate for my child to approach their coach and ask what they could have done better at tryouts to have made the team of their choice. After that, I want my child to thank them for their comments and accept it. You said "there are many issues that I think are relevant to the outcome of the tryouts, and am currently trying to make the administration at the school see this." If you have provided the appropriate people with the information you feel needs to be addressed, then it is time to let them decide if there was an issue, and let it go. Politics, favoritism, and mistakes happen, but the way we react and respond often ends up having more weight on the situation than anything else.

Sorry for the double post... but THIS 100%

 

[cheergrace2001]

That’s Valid... the company shouldn’t have sent that judge... therefore perhaps every score given by that particular judge should be thrown out and deemed invalid... and re calculate totals based on remaining judges scores... but keep in mind what remains could work for you or leave your daughter without a position at all... who knows if that particular judge didn’t favor anyone at all and in fact scored your daughter higher than the other judge?
Only other option is RE do tryout all over... but what if you get the the same result, will you and your daughter at that point be willing to accept the results of that tryout. (You sound very reasonable.. I’m assuming you would)... but it’s a bit of a slippery slope not to mention your daughter would now have to cheer with a bunch of kids who had to re do their entire tryout because she established (perhaps rightfully so) that there was an error in the judging...
I believe it might be setting her up for scrutiny.
What’s right is right and there’s nothing wrong with ensuring that your daughter had her “fair” shot...
But kids & probably their parents (if the mentality is as you say it is) will likely not see it this way and she has to co exist with them for a whole season if she intends to accept ANY position.

One issue with throwing out that judges' scores is that they don't put their names or a number on their scorecards. Only candidate numbers and the total of that scorecard. She (and myself) would be happy with any outcome, as long as it was fair. To be honest, when she was an incoming freshman and made JV, we were both initially a little upset, because we felt she was good enough for Varsity, but accepted it at that time, that maybe she didn't have the best tryout. It made her become a better cheerleader that year and she improved SO much! Even her coach noticed the change in her.

We are both aware that she may face some scrutiny, and of course, she isn't a fan of that, but she's a sweet kid and has no issues with any of her friends. I think they might be upset at first, but it would blow over. I'm just hoping for the best.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

1. This is why my staff and I do not use outside judges for HS. Too much crazy and speculation. I use scoring but a longer tryout process that is more than one day. I'd much rather be the one to say "Your kid did not make it and this is why" because we scored and evaluated her all week.

2. I can tell you that I did a middle school pep rally choreo, came back and helped teach/evaluate during their clinics and I couldn't play favorites. Why? Because I could barely remember them. I work, am a mom, coach HS, etc. I do not have the brain cells to remember 20 kids so I can play faves and rig a middle school tryout. Same is likely true for this person you're accusing of favoritism.

 

[cheergrace2001]

1. This is why my staff and I do not use outside judges for HS. Too much crazy and speculation. I use scoring but a longer tryout process that is more than one day. I'd much rather be the one to say "Your kid did not make it and this is why" because we scored and evaluated her all week.

2. I can tell you that I did a middle school pep rally choreo, came back and helped teach/evaluate during their clinics and I couldn't play favorites. Why? Because I could barely remember them. I work, am a mom, coach HS, etc. I do not have the brain cells to remember 20 kids so I can play faves and rig a middle school tryout. Same is likely true for this person you're accusing of favoritism.

Just to be clear- I'm not accusing anyone. I'm certainly not crazy either. My goal is for them to follow the rules that are set in place. Is there a possibility of a judge remembering girls from a camp just 7 months ago and judging them with some bias? Absolutely there is. Why would she take the position if she agrees to NOT judge a tryout that she had previously taught candidates from a camp?! Doing something she should not have is enough of a reason to question a tryout.

 

[cheergrace2001]

Just to be clear- I'm not accusing anyone. I'm certainly not crazy either. My goal is for them to follow the rules that are set in place. Is there a possibility of a judge remembering girls from a camp just 7 months ago and judging them with some bias? Absolutely there is. Why would she take the position if she agrees to NOT judge a tryout that she had previously taught candidates from a camp?! Doing something she should not have is enough of a reason to question a tryout.

1. This is why my staff and I do not use outside judges for HS. Too much crazy and speculation. I use scoring but a longer tryout process that is more than one day. I'd much rather be the one to say "Your kid did not make it and this is why" because we scored and evaluated her all week.

2. I can tell you that I did a middle school pep rally choreo, came back and helped teach/evaluate during their clinics and I couldn't play favorites. Why? Because I could barely remember them. I work, am a mom, coach HS, etc. I do not have the brain cells to remember 20 kids so I can play faves and rig a middle school tryout. Same is likely true for this person you're accusing of favoritism.

I would LOVE for the school to hold tryouts this way! They would get a real feel of who is consistent and not just lucky!

 

[Keep_Believing]

It sucks, but it happens. It is not uncommon. Every try out season there are some very talented experienced girls who don't make it, while some of their peers who do not have high level cheer skills make the team.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I would LOVE for the school to hold tryouts this way! They would get a real feel of who is consistent and not just lucky!

Clarity: I was not calling YOU crazy.

It is crazy that folks have to speculate as to how candidates are selected.