All-Star Cheer Music & Copyright Laws...

[CGAcheer]

I'm assuming you meant independent contractor the same way as hiring an employee to do it...thus the same explanation/answer regarding hiring an employee to do it applies.

Example 1: A choreographer charges you for Choreography but gives you a free cheer mix as a bonus. No one is buying, selling, profiting from the music, is that legal?

Example 2: a Gym makes their own music in house and does not charge a music fee. is that legal?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Uploaders do get in trouble though. I did about 4 years ago--I was so confused when I got the letter, because it wasn't a song I had downloaded, but when someone uploaded off my computer, I got a letter from the RIAA. It was a small fine, but a fine nonetheless, because I was enabling and allowing the music to be shared.

See that just means they've just gotten worse over time. I wonder how that would have held up if challenged though (like depending on the medium in which it was uploaded- like the type of software).

Example 1: A choreographer charges you for Choreography but gives you a free cheer mix as a bonus. No one is buying, selling, profiting from the music, is that legal?

Example 2: a Gym makes their own music in house and does not charge a music fee. is that legal?

No to both bc it's still copyright infringement. Like the example I gave of YouTube. If you sing a song by an artist just goofing around, or if you have pics of certain things in your room, you can still be required to take it down depending on the original artist/owner request. If you turn on ads on YouTube in the same situation, that's obviously a much bigger can of worms bc of the profit.

If your intention is to only listen to the music given to you for "free" by a choreographer, or play the mix tape "you make" in house and "don't charge for", and they've obtained all of their music on the mix legally, then you'd probably be ok (I saw probably bc you walk a fine line- as most people in the business are aware the costs of the music fee will be added somewhere even it's not "itemized" and/or said not to be a charge).

However, if your intention is to use it throughout the season as a team's musical mix at places that do make money from having you compete, then that's illegal (unless the proper fees are being paid to use the music as I explained earlier). Even though at that point the bigger responsibility would lie within the EP (and I don't know how many EP's would take that chance if it came down it- meaning if the music industry cracks down on cheer music/cheer music producers); the argument could still be made that you ultimately profit from it in some way bc your business is for profit and not recreational purposes and bc the way you make money is by competing- with their music.

It's such a slippery slope bc as I mentioned before back when VCR's came out the Supreme Court ruled on a similar issue (essentially the same, just a different medium). They ruled against Sony and said that it was legal to video tape TV shows..but since the dawn of the internet and file sharing, it became a whole new game (Napster for good reference). Now they've got the big cable companies agreeing to provide the IP's for people who illegally download (the link to the article I posted in this thread).

 

[xtremeteal4life]

As someone pointed out to me in a pm (and it's been mentioned in another thread, if not this one) the big EP's like Varsity do pay the proper fees for the music to be played at their comps. I also seem to remember something like having to turn in your music for Worlds prior to the competition so they can clear it and make sure they get approval to play it and pay for it.

I'm really referring to small EP's in my example above..smaller regionals, "nationals", etc.

 

[garretttt]

I tried telling ppl (some cheer music producers who swore otherwise) this was illegal, and that the only real remedy is to pay the fees- kind of how YouTube does- to use the music. I assumed more savvy producers were already doing this, but I guess not.

i thought some producers do pay fees though?

ETA: music producers. i think i remember someone saying they pay a certain fee so its legal.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

i thought some producers do pay fees though?

ETA: music producers. i think i remember someone saying they pay a certain fee so its legal.

That's exactly what I was saying, lol (I admit albeit a bit sarcastically) The ones who pay the fees are doing nothing illegal. Someone at the beginning of this thread (quite some time ago) swore up and down he knew what he was talking about and got copyright infringement and broadcast laws all mixed up, his info was incorrect, and I was actually very concerned if someone took him seriously bc of it (the past two pages I've quoted some of the material- not all from that specific person though) the risks, etc.

So the savvy music producers should know to pay their fees and the ones that do are in compliance w/accordance to the law (on their part of using and selling mixes). Does that make sense? It's almost 6 in the morning and I don't know if I'm being redundant, making grammatical errors, etc...lol

 

[Cheeranswers]

how are cheer mixes different than djs? its possible that big name djs pay for their music but i know many around here that dont that get hired to play in their club. how is this any different?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

how are cheer mixes different than djs? its possible that big name djs pay for their music but i know many around here that dont that get hired to play in their club. how is this any different?

it's not really- it's still illegal
just bc people do something doesn't mean it's legal. For example, "Well the police officer was going over the speed limit w/o his blue lights on, how is that any different than me speeding? It's not- you're still speeding and it's still against the law.
The question you should be asking is, how do they not get caught if cheer music is being targeted (and I don't know if it is, I just assume based on King's response to this old thread)? Maybe the club pays the fees, who knows?

 

[Cheeranswers]

it's not really- it's still illegal
just bc people do something doesn't mean it's legal. For example, "Well the police officer was going over the speed limit w/o his blue lights on, how is that any different than me speeding? It's not- you're still speeding and it's still against the law.
The question you should be asking is, how do they not get caught if cheer music is being targeted (and I don't know if it is, I just assume based on King's response to this old thread)? Maybe the club pays the fees, who knows?

i think i gave the wrong impression. i didnt mean "well djs get away with it so we should" i just meant that it doesnt seem like a big deal when djs do it, but we're started to get in trouble. i was more asking if they are having the same problems as cheer mixers are?

 

[David]

The producers are all aware of what is going on. I have spoken with a high up representative for Varsity and UCA, so they are aware of it as well. She is currently doing some digging on the situation. Right now, nothing is really happening. No one is being sued, taken to court, jailed etc...it is all just kind of in waiting right now. If I hear anything from Varsity I will post it.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

i think i gave the wrong impression. i didnt mean "well djs get away with it so we should" i just meant that it doesnt seem like a big deal when djs do it, but we're started to get in trouble. i was more asking if they are having the same problems as cheer mixers are?

I'm not personally aware of any issues/instances where someone in the cheer world has gotten in trouble/questioned, etc. over their mixes. So perhaps that's why I interpreted your answer differently. I was just responding to the actual legal/illegal issues mentioned. Did someone actually get in trouble, get fined, etc. for this in the cheer world or were we just talking about how they're cracking down on illegal downloading of material, now with the cooperation of some major companies like Time Warner, Verizon, etc.?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

The producers are all aware of what is going on. I have spoken with a high up representative for Varsity and UCA, so they are aware of it as well. She is currently doing some digging on the situation. Right now, nothing is really happening. No one is being sued, taken to court, jailed etc...it is all just kind of in waiting right now. If I hear anything from Varsity I will post it.

Hmm now I'm confused. :/ What do you mean by "the producers are all aware of what's going on"? So did something set off a spark to cause a reaction from the music producers in the industry? The reason I ask is bc they've been doing it for years and it's never been an "issue" (despite it being mentioned on here before), so what is the "in waiting right now" mean?

I'm fairly confident that the major comps that are televised like NCA, UCA, and Worlds have been following some type of proper protocol regarding it being broadcasted- especially the actual networks (at least I would hope so, lol).

 

[David]

Hmm now I'm confused. :/ What do you mean by "the producers are all aware of what's going on"? So did something set off a spark to cause a reaction from the music producers in the industry? The reason I ask is bc they've been doing it for years and it's never been an "issue" (despite it being mentioned on here before), so what is the "in waiting right now" mean?

I'm fairly confident that the major comps that are televised like NCA, UCA, and Worlds have been following some type of proper protocol regarding it being broadcasted- especially the actual networks (at least I would hope so, lol).

Some producers are getting cease and desist letters from the RIAA. NCA, UCA etc... have a piad license that allows the music too be played. The issue at hand deals more with producers using artists songs to create mixes and selling them to make profit---unauthorized distribution. All stupid. Like they don't make enough money as it is...

 

[David]

Hmm now I'm confused. :/ What do you mean by "the producers are all aware of what's going on"? So did something set off a spark to cause a reaction from the music producers in the industry? The reason I ask is bc they've been doing it for years and it's never been an "issue" (despite it being mentioned on here before), so what is the "in waiting right now" mean?

I'm fairly confident that the major comps that are televised like NCA, UCA, and Worlds have been following some type of proper protocol regarding it being broadcasted- especially the actual networks (at least I would hope so, lol).

By in the waiting I mean nothing is really happening. Producers have gotten letters from the RIAA, but charges haven't been pressed on anyone yet.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Some producers are getting cease and desist letters from the RIAA. NCA, UCA etc... have a piad license that allows the music too be played. The issue at hand deals more with producers using artists songs to create mixes and selling them to make profit---unauthorized distribution. All stupid. Like they don't make enough money as it is...

Yeah unfortunately that's illegal and I went over it extensively in the beginning (and toward the end) of the thread. I have tried telling people this over and over-it's not illegal to make the mixes but it's illegal to sell them; but I also didn't think they'd come after cheer music soon though, so I guess I was wrong about that part.
Well if NCA and UCA are sending some producers cease and desist letters and they have the proper licenses to allow them to be aired and played at their events (which are aired on TV), them I'm assuming it's the RIAA who's gotten wind of cheer music and their producers. Unless THEY (producers) also have paid their proper licensing fees to the proper companies like the RIAA, technically they're screwed unless they're gonna do it legally and pay for the rights.

 

[David]

NCA and UCA aren't sending any letters. The RIAA is sending out letters. And technically any distribution of the music is illegal, even if producers give it to a team for free.