All-Star Eli5 Changes In Scoring 2018/2019

[alpaca]

I keep hearing that stunt is worth more than it was in past years. But I can't seem to find specifics. When I look at the scoresheet, the high ranges don't seem to add up to 100 so I know I'm mis-reading something.

Can someone ELI5 how this upcoming season is different than past seasons?

 

[molls]

Stunt difficulty - 5.0
Quantity - 5.0
Stunt tech - 5.0
Toss difficulty - 5.0
Toss tech - 5.0
Pyramid - 5.0
Pyramid tech - 5.0
Running tumbling difficulty - 5.0
Running tech - 5.0
Standing tumbling difficulty - 5.0
Standing tech - 5.0
Jump difficulty - 5.0
Jump tech - 5.0
Stunt creativity - 2.5
Pyramid creativity - 2.5
Dance - 10.0
Performance - 10.0
Routine comp - 10.0

Adds up to 100, except in level 1 - adds up to 90 which is then calculated as a % of percent of perfection.

The big differences that I've seen this season are in tumbling quantities. "Most" is now 60% - so to get into high range for standing tumbling most of your team needs to do a synced pass, plus majority has to perform another pass throughout the routine. It used to be 75%. So, last year my team of 23 had to have 17 kids do skills to get into range. This year, I'd only need 12. I don't think many teams truly go with bare bones numbers to get into range, but the fact that you need less bodies doing skills really boosts your chances of getting into range.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Stunt difficulty - 5.0
Quantity - 5.0
Stunt tech - 5.0
Toss difficulty - 5.0
Toss tech - 5.0
Pyramid - 5.0
Pyramid tech - 5.0
Running tumbling difficulty - 5.0
Running tech - 5.0
Standing tumbling difficulty - 5.0
Standing tech - 5.0
Jump difficulty - 5.0
Jump tech - 5.0
Stunt creativity - 2.5
Pyramid creativity - 2.5
Dance - 10.0
Performance - 10.0
Routine comp - 10.0

Adds up to 100, except in level 1 - adds up to 90 which is then calculated as a % of percent of perfection.

The big differences that I've seen this season are in tumbling quantities. "Most" is now 60% - so to get into high range for standing tumbling most of your team needs to do a synced pass, plus majority has to perform another pass throughout the routine. It used to be 75%. So, last year my team of 23 had to have 17 kids do skills to get into range. This year, I'd only need 12. I don't think many teams truly go with bare bones numbers to get into range, but the fact that you need less bodies doing skills really boosts your chances of getting into range.

Exactly this.

It makes me bonkers that coaches do the bare minimum to get into whatever range, then complain that they're not at the high end of the high range. The teams that still do full team whatever skill will always have higher difficulty. It's simply harder to sync up all your athletes, have them all match technique, keep the speed of the skills up. If you need 12 and only do 12, sure, take you 4.5 and be happy, but don't complain when you don't get a 4.8. Not that you complained, but I've heard so many coaches not understand how the ranges work.

I wish more coaches would take training as a judge. About half our coaches take judges training every year so that they can actually understand how it will work!

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Exactly this.

It makes me bonkers that coaches do the bare minimum to get into whatever range, then complain that they're not at the high end of the high range. The teams that still do full team whatever skill will always have higher difficulty. It's simply harder to sync up all your athletes, have them all match technique, keep the speed of the skills up. If you need 12 and only do 12, sure, take you 4.5 and be happy, but don't complain when you don't get a 4.8. Not that you complained, but I've heard so many coaches not understand how the ranges work.

I wish more coaches would take training as a judge. About half our coaches take judges training every year so that they can actually understand how it will work!

This whole concept of the high range is one thing that kills all star scoring.

If you’ve got a division that’s 10 teams deep.

And all the teams have 24 kids on the floor.

60% of the team has to perform skill to get into “high range.”

60% of 24 is in the neighborhood of 14.

So in that division of ten teams you could have every team get “into range” with different numbers of skills and only a 0.5 point range in which to separate them.

It might work better for shallow divisions (of which, God KNOWS the all star industry has too many), but it doesn’t leave enough room to separate teams in deeper divisions.

ETA: this is all based on MY UNDERSTANDING of how it works, which, granted, is third person and not from my practical usage of the scoresheet.

 

[alpaca]

Stunt difficulty - 5.0
Quantity - 5.0
Stunt tech - 5.0
Toss difficulty - 5.0
Toss tech - 5.0
Pyramid - 5.0
Pyramid tech - 5.0
Running tumbling difficulty - 5.0
Running tech - 5.0
Standing tumbling difficulty - 5.0
Standing tech - 5.0
Jump difficulty - 5.0
Jump tech - 5.0
Stunt creativity - 2.5
Pyramid creativity - 2.5
Dance - 10.0
Performance - 10.0
Routine comp - 10.0

Adds up to 100, except in level 1 - adds up to 90 which is then calculated as a % of percent of perfection.

The big differences that I've seen this season are in tumbling quantities. "Most" is now 60% - so to get into high range for standing tumbling most of your team needs to do a synced pass, plus majority has to perform another pass throughout the routine. It used to be 75%. So, last year my team of 23 had to have 17 kids do skills to get into range. This year, I'd only need 12. I don't think many teams truly go with bare bones numbers to get into range, but the fact that you need less bodies doing skills really boosts your chances of getting into range.

Thank you so much! Fo some reason the chart format confused me. Listing it like this makes it easier for me to understand.

 

[XtremeWpg]

This whole concept of the high range is one thing that kills all star scoring.

If you’ve got a division that’s 10 teams deep.

And all the teams have 24 kids on the floor.

60% of the team has to perform skill to get into “high range.”

60% of 24 is in the neighborhood of 14.

So in that division of ten teams you could have every team get “into range” with different numbers of skills and only a 0.5 point range in which to separate them.

It might work better for shallow divisions (of which, God KNOWS the all star industry has too many), but it doesn’t leave enough room to separate teams in deeper divisions.

ETA: this is all based on MY UNDERSTANDING of how it works, which, granted, is third person and not from my practical usage of the scoresheet.

Totally agree.

I really enjoy the IASF score sheets that are used for all international divisions for this reason.

For stunt difficulty the ranges are:
0 pts: No skills performed
1.0-6.0 pts: Non difficult skills performed
4.0-10.0 pts: Moderately difficult skills performed
8.0-20 pts: Difficult skills performed.

The following are considered when scoring difficulty in stunts and pyramids

Degree of difficulty
Percentage of team participation
Variety of load-ins, dismounts and transitional elements.
Additional skills and combination of skills (non level included) may increase your score.
Minimal use of bases.

 

[molls]

Exactly this.

It makes me bonkers that coaches do the bare minimum to get into whatever range, then complain that they're not at the high end of the high range. The teams that still do full team whatever skill will always have higher difficulty. It's simply harder to sync up all your athletes, have them all match technique, keep the speed of the skills up. If you need 12 and only do 12, sure, take you 4.5 and be happy, but don't complain when you don't get a 4.8. Not that you complained, but I've heard so many coaches not understand how the ranges work.

I wish more coaches would take training as a judge. About half our coaches take judges training every year so that they can actually understand how it will work!

I have years of judging under my belt so I try to help the other staff at our gym and my friends that coach understand it as much as possible. It is really interesting to see how people play these new ranges, though. The technique ranges are SO much wider than difficulty. I have a team of 27 this year so while I CAN put up 6 stunts, I really only have to put up 5 to hit high range. No matter what, if I put 5 groups up and do 4 LA appropriate skills, 2 of which are elite, I'll be .5 away from the max difficulty score. I have five KILLER groups and one weak group - is it more worth it to push for the extra potential .5 in difficulty, or cut a group or aim to get a bigger lead in that 1.5 technique range? Same with tumbling - I could have all 27 kids do a standing pass with moderate tech, or only have 15 tumble, still be .5 from the highest difficulty score and potentially reach for a 5.0 in technique rather than, say, a 4.2 or 4.3.

I figure the same with jumps and baskets - I have choreographers put in the bare minimum number of kids or groups for that. It's a set difficulty score for those categories. I know that not using your full numbers is considered into routine comp score, but I'd rather sacrifice that and aim for bigger tech scores by having only my very best jumpers or toss flyers go. Our choreographer seems to love it... it's a perfect time for fluff and amazing visuals by the extras to help build back up the choreo scores.

 

[quitthedrama]

I have years of judging under my belt so I try to help the other staff at our gym and my friends that coach understand it as much as possible. It is really interesting to see how people play these new ranges, though. The technique ranges are SO much wider than difficulty. I have a team of 27 this year so while I CAN put up 6 stunts, I really only have to put up 5 to hit high range. No matter what, if I put 5 groups up and do 4 LA appropriate skills, 2 of which are elite, I'll be .5 away from the max difficulty score. I have five KILLER groups and one weak group - is it more worth it to push for the extra potential .5 in difficulty, or cut a group or aim to get a bigger lead in that 1.5 technique range? Same with tumbling - I could have all 27 kids do a standing pass with moderate tech, or only have 15 tumble, still be .5 from the highest difficulty score and potentially reach for a 5.0 in technique rather than, say, a 4.2 or 4.3.

I figure the same with jumps and baskets - I have choreographers put in the bare minimum number of kids or groups for that. It's a set difficulty score for those categories. I know that not using your full numbers is considered into routine comp score, but I'd rather sacrifice that and aim for bigger tech scores by having only my very best jumpers or toss flyers go. Our choreographer seems to love it... it's a perfect time for fluff and amazing visuals by the extras to help build back up the choreo scores.

This seems to be the trend with all star cheer - less is more except for the cost. I can tell you that as a parent, I'm not into paying $10k/year for my kid to nugget yet I'm seeing more and more $10k nuggets and I wonder how long parents will be willing to pay to watch their kid stand behind stunts, jumps and/or tumbling all season.

 

[justcheering]

This seems to be the trend with all star cheer - less is more except for the cost. I can tell you that as a parent, I'm not into paying $10k/year for my kid to nugget yet I'm seeing more and more $10k nuggets and I wonder how long parents will be willing to pay to watch their kid stand behind stunts, jumps and/or tumbling all season.

Totally agree! And not only that but it sucks to be the kid who is nuggeting in the back. That ended up being me two seasons ago and it was horrible. I felt like I wasn't a true memeber of the team or important. It's not fun to know that it doesn't really matter if you're on the team or not cause you're just in the back the whole time lol.

 

[Kiermyc]

There was a gym last season that we competed against a few times and every one of their teams did this often having numerous kids ducking in the back and hiding behind stunts. I didn’t realize this was the new norm until we went to Summit and I seen it was what a lot of teams were doing. I would not pay for my child to just be up there. But it works for them they win competitions this way. Less risk of falls or mess ups when you can just have the weaker or less skilled standing around. At summit my daughters team was one of the only in her division to have full squad tumbling and 5 stunts for 20 girls. I don’t see her gym ever utilizing using less than what you have. Every kid deserves to build their skills and you can’t do that if your not participating.

 

[molls]

This seems to be the trend with all star cheer - less is more except for the cost. I can tell you that as a parent, I'm not into paying $10k/year for my kid to nugget yet I'm seeing more and more $10k nuggets and I wonder how long parents will be willing to pay to watch their kid stand behind stunts, jumps and/or tumbling all season.

I've never just had kids hide. We use the extra bodies to stunt behind tumbling/jump sections, do motions to make those sections more visually appealing, or those kids tumble during stunts. If a child literally hides for the whole routine, they belong on a different team.