All-Star From Courtney Pope - "the View From Backstage At The Naccc..."

[cheercurl]

Not at all, you are going off accusations. No one knows what is going on in WC coaches minds and I find it ridiculous that everyone is acting like they know this. Also, feel free to call people out on here if you are going to try to "hint" at them.

I haven't posted on here in quite awhile but not long ago I was a daily poster. The rules then were that you could not call out a gym or a person specifically. If those rules have changed you can insert Elaine or World Cup where ever it would be appropriate. I do agree that we do not really know what is going on in any person/gym's mind but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck well I am sure you no the rest of that expression. I highly question the timing of this proposal and doubt very much that she would have supported this same proposal years ago when WC was dominating this division.

 

[cheercurl]

I thought it was already established that WC was in favor of restriction, not elimination?

Thank you...I was trying to find where it actually said that but there were quite a few versions.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

I haven't posted on here in quite awhile but not long ago I was a daily poster. The rules then were that you could not call out a gym or a person specifically. If those rules have changed you can insert Elaine or World Cup where ever it would be appropriate. I do agree that we do not really know what is going on in any person/gym's mind but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck well I am sure you no the rest of that expression. I highly question the timing of this proposal and doubt very much that she would have supported this same proposal years ago when WC was dominating this division.

Welcome back cheercurl! I think a lot of rules have changed since you have been gone. A lot that are good...a few...eh...

 

[ztaprincess]

Ok...here is my take on this and please feel free to clarify any points I may be missing or are inaccurate because I am coming into this a little late in the game.

We have a new proposal coming from a big "NJ gym" and (to be fair maybe others as well but I would really like to know who the "other supporters are") that we eliminate Youth 5 because it is dangerous and taxing on young bodies to compete/practice at that skill level BUT it was not dangerous for years when their youth 5 team was dominating the field???. Now that a bigger gym with a huge talent pool has the potential to dominate "NJ gym" thinks it would be best to eliminate this level or maybe restrict youth 5???. Umm...no matter how you slice it this sounds a little self serving from a "person" who is actually powerful enough to maybe pull this off. Scary stuff, no one person in this industry should have that kind of influence.

Am I getting this right?

There were gyms from NJ that proposed eliminating the division, but that big gym (WC) actually is in favor of restricting the division. There was then a post made by Courtney that basically said that WC was doing this because at NCA they were told on their scoresheet to "add more double fulls." And then the conspriacy theories started about them wanting it gone because they were being beat.

World Cup is not for eliminating the division but instead for keeping it safer on the young bodies throwing the passes. Debbie Love was actually (I am pretty sure) also in support of restricting the division as well as Roger from Stingrays.

 

[cheercurl]

Than

Welcome back cheercurl! I think a lot of rules have changed since you have been gone. A lot that are good...a few...eh...

Thank you!

 

[CA_kayla]

Why is it biased and bitter to say kids left our program because we couldn't give them what they needed? For you to have come from our program where your daughter excelled I am surprised at your reaction.

Both CAC and CEA are great programs. They attract kids to their programs that have the same goals and objectives the respective programs pursue. To imply CEA needs to hold onto the Y5 "carrot" to help build and attract youth athletes is wrong and comes across negatively. If your statement had stayed with "giving them what they needed", I would not object. This happens across the county, even at my current gym!

Not only that, the inclusion of Y5 as the reason kids leave or go to CEA, does not give them the respect or credit for building a great program. It minimizes their appeal. No, CEA is not the only program that can teach "proper" tumbling, but something about them attracts kids to their program. Give them their respect, it does not minimize CAC's impact to cheer.

There is always a way to support your program without being negative about another. JMO

Yes, we owe a great deal of credit to CAC for my daughters development as a person and cheerleader. However, if we had not relocated, we would have chased that carrot!

 

[Cheeranamo]

I apologize for missing your edited post...but as far as the comment, I'm assuming your his fb friend so could you please show me where, bc unless I'm blind or overly sleep deprived it is not posted on his wall

Under "Safe youth 5. I need a favor..." post, 9th post comment down was her comment. It is there still, was there yesterday, was there the day I posted it. I would never post something like that without it being factual. I would suggest more sleep or glasses ha.

 

[buffyyy]

lot of long messages make me crosseyed ^_^

 

[kristenthegreat]

Welcome back cheercurl! I think a lot of rules have changed since you have been gone. A lot that are good...a few...eh...

WAIT!!! There are actual RULES!?! Since WHEN!? I've just been secretly enforcing whatever rule I think should go into effect for the day. Like today is 'No-excessive-shimmying/booty shaking' day.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

CA_Kayla...I guess we will have to agree to disagree. However I do appreciate your thoughtful response!

Our dialogue has clearly become personal so I'll try to end it on my part here. I've been on this board and the ones that preceeding it for 5 years and have never been reported, censored, or warned for my opinions. Likewise CAC has never asked me to change, retract, or delete any post I've ever made. I've been a member of the USASF Parent Action Committee for 3 years because they think I am unbiased enough to help represent Allstar parents in gyms across the country including CEA. They also thought I was unbiased enough to write articles representing Allstar parents from all gyms that were published on the USASF website and First Friday.

So maybe next time you are in Charlotte or we pass each other at Cheersport or Worlds, try and get to know me before you judge me. You may even be surprised when you see me in priority seating cheering for a friend's CEA team like they were my own. We have way to many common friends for you to make a decision about me based on a handful of posts.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

WAIT!!! There are actual RULES!?! Since WHEN!? I've just been secretly enforcing whatever rule I think should go into effect for the day. Like today is 'No-excessive-shimmying/booty shaking' day.

But I finally got the hang of the shimmy and think I might be pretty good at it! Hmmmmm....

 

[cheermommaRN]

The other night I pulled up 3 recent medical journal articles regarding the rise of chronic knee in injuries in adolescents. It's not just cheer, it's almost every sport kids participate in these days. When I was a kid they didn't even have "all stars" or "club" anything for that matter. I didn't start playing field hockey until 7th grade and even I blew out my ACL my senior year. My cp wants to get her full asap and I feel confident in her coaches that it will be a technically sound one but after that the brakes come on. The rule is she can't start working doubles until she is 12. I am hoping by then her quads will be strong enough to withstand the impact. I know I'm a mean horrible mommie for holding my child back....

 

[just_kay_today]

CA_Kayla...I guess we will have to agree to disagree. However I do appreciate your thoughtful response!

Our dialogue has clearly become personal so I'll try to end it on my part here. I've been on this board and the ones that preceeding it for 5 years and have never been reported, censored, or warned for my opinions. Likewise CAC has never asked me to change, retract, or delete any post I've ever made. I've been a member of the USASF Parent Action Committee for 3 years because they think I am unbiased enough to help represent Allstar parents in gyms across the country including CEA. They also thought I was unbiased enough to write articles representing Allstar parents from all gyms that were published on the USASF website and First Friday.

So maybe next time you are in Charlotte or we pass each other at Cheersport or Worlds, try and get to know me before you judge me. You may even be surprised when you see me in priority seating cheering for a friend's CEA team like they were my own. We have way to many common friends for you to make a decision about me based on a handful of posts.

Then perhaps, you need to brush up on your mastery of the open debate. You have been told by more than one poster that your original post came off as biased. Could that be true? Or do your above credentials prelude you from being fallible? If you truly want to speak knowledgeably about CEA, and sound credible, you know where to find the coaches, and the gym is always open for visits.

 

[newcheerdad]

Instead of passing rules restrictling athletes in any particular division or level based on conjecture and assumption, how about collecting some data and make decisions based on the tried and true method of analysis. IF we can agree that cheerleading seems to have a high level of injury, why are we assuming that it is the Youth division that is the most vulnerable? And, if the rules need to be changed without any objective data, why not make the same proposed changes concerning safety for all divisions? My suspicion is that some of this is available, as insurance companies do write policies for gyms and I'll bet they have data to base their rates on for the customer. BUT, I strongly suspect that no one has done anywhere near the research to single out one specific division for these type of changes. I would charge those pushing for the changes to back their assumptions up with some objective proof that their observations or valid, and their changes will help alleviate the problem. Otherwise, it looks to me like a random act for unknown purposes, AND IT IS POSSIBLE THEY ARE WHAT THEY APPEAR TO BE ON THE SURFACE FOR SAFETY, but apparently Courtney feels differently and has expressed that opinion here, or facebook, or wherever.

Table the thing and study it and change the industry incrementally using sound analysis with appropriate time to give everyone a chance to adapt.

I totally agree that unless there's evidence that the division is unsafe for 9-11 year olds then I don't think you can eliminate it on those grounds. But there is at least some surface validity to the statement, and I think that a study of cheer injuries is merited even beyond the level 5 debate.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I totally agree that unless there's evidence that the division is unsafe for 9-11 year olds then I don't think you can eliminate it on those grounds. But there is at least some surface validity to the statement, and I think that a study of cheer injuries is merited even beyond the level 5 debate.

I can tell you from observation and being someone that sees injuries in the gym and at competitions that the Youth Level 5 division is NOT the source of serious fractures, joint and tendon injuries. But just as with my criticisim of those using safety to restrict skills in the division my OBSERVATIONS and CONCLUSIONS on this subject are completly without proof and just my impression. Post pubertal girls that are trying to get skills for a senior team that they did not quite perfect as youth and junior seem to occupy the dubious honor of serious ligament injuries, and post pubertal males seem to get a lot of fractures and Achilles injuries. My suggestion would be to concentrate on the 14 and above age kids that are trying to get skills after hormones have changed their body including their joints, ligaments, muscles and bones and then use the same rules concerning restriction and progression on everyone else. It would be easy enough to charge each competition with a panel to evaluate tumbling skills in warm up and restrict athletes deemed unsafe to drop their skill down or face serious penalty for the team. And then you could add evaluation of the methods of each gym if you want to impliment strict liscensing parameters on the instructors. I suspect a good PI lawyer will be glad to define the standard in court if one waits long enough for the right injury.