All-Star From Courtney Pope - "the View From Backstage At The Naccc..."

[Cheeranamo]

I disagree that the WC vs. CEA was a bad thing to bring up. Is she opening a can of worms? yes. Is it an important can of worms to open? absolutely. It brings out the "politics" that everyone always speaks of. If you have constantly been beat by a team, then you finally get good enough and beat them and all of a sudden they decide to change the rules, I'd be upset too. I guess my biggest discrepancy on this issue is if you are going to eliminate or restrict youth 5, you need to eliminate or restrict ALL athletes that age doing level 5 skills. A 7 or 9 or 11 year old on a junior team shouldn't be allowed to double if a 7 or 9 or 11 year old on a youth team can't. I bet there is just as many youth aged kids on junior 5 teams from lesser known gyms, or just gyms without youth 5, that have doubles and practice or compete them constantly, yet nobody wants to put a bottom age on Junior 5? Not once have I seen that get much discussion. I think regardless of what you do with this division, coaches will still be hesitant to put out a youth 5, not because they think it's dangerous, but because "CEA is in that division" or "Rays is in that division". I see plenty of Senior teams go level 5 because they have 1 double and 5 fulls, yet nobody wants to start a youth 5 unless they have 20 fulls. I just don't get it? And the only conclusion I can come up with is that teams would rather compete down and let their 10 year olds walk away with jackets then have to go up against the Mega-gyms. I say bravo to teams like Mavericks, Allstar Legacy, and FCA for, in past years and current, going up against gyms 2 or 3 times their size. Like Debbie Love said, if taught correctly and with the right technique, tumbling shouldn't be as dangerous or difficult as people make it to be. We do need to focus more on progression in the sport, but eliminating or restricting a division and, making those athletes do even harder skills and be under even more pressure in the Junior division(because you know that's what these coaches will do to keep parents happy) just doesn't seem like the "it's all about the athlete's safety" that everyone wants to make it out to be. There IS a better solution to this, we just still need to find it.

I think the issue regarding the bolded is that is the way "she" said what "she" said and all in all its just showing bad sportsmanship. "SHE" is essentially blaming WC for wanting this change individually. Obviously, as you can see on the board, there are many others than WC who believe youth should at least be restricted. It is just distasteful that such a big name, who many people look up to, would come out and attack another team like that. She specifically said, " its our NJ friends who are trying to delete this division in a self serving way to even their playing field. It has nothing to do with safety or growing the division and everything to do with being competitive." To say WC does not care about the safety of the athletes is just wrong. Essentially she is trying to keep this division in a "self-serving" way (tuition from those athletes..) so to add to it, it is a hypocritical statement. It is okay to be upset but as a women who runs a "mega-gym" and is a huge name in the industry it is not okay to point fingers in such a negative way. I love CEA but this definitely puts a thought that this CEA owner is really only about "Xing you out" and not the total package.

 

[notimeforthat]

Please keep in mind that not everyone attacking World Cup is directly associated with CEA. Some of these people really don't have a clue what they are talking about and are speaking of things they've heard about, but not what they've experienced themselves. Try to keep that in mind. Some of us "Teal" people do try to keep things logical and respectful. On the other hand there are others that insist on stirring the pot. My thing is if people are going to stir the pot, they shouldn't stir it off of what they've heard, but what they've experienced. There are few occassions that I've seen on here, where people speak to their actual experiences. Quite honestly, I don't think it's a matter of calling people out. I think it's a matter of accountability and holding people accountable. There is also a level of honesty and integrity that is owed to us as customers who are quite frankly trusting these people with our children. I have no problems with people speaking their truth, as long as it's the truth. Let's be honest with ourselves as well. We are not as naive as the people we pay money to think we are.

Very Good Points! I like you.....

 

[PghxCheer2]

I guess a large concern I have with restricting it is will it really help save the division? There aren't many teams in this division, so when you go against one I'm almost sure it's probably a very rewarding feeling that you at least even have a competitor, so are coaches scared because they don't have doubles, or are they scared because they will have to go against "mini-me" teams of the best junior and senior teams in the country, at the two competitions they actually have somebody to go against during the year? or are the mega-gyms really the only ones able to produce large groups of prodigies at such a young age? The division may have lots of rumored competitors in August of next year, but come November, when Twinkles and YE and Teal show their routines, will people still want to send their teams into the division? or will they have all of a sudden "have quitters" or "have injuries" and can't compete? I guess that's the nature of the beast though. We won't know the outcome of the rule until it's put into place. Nobody can say there won't be an increase in Y5 competitors, but nobody can be positive there will be either. I'm sure we'll see a couple pop up if it's passed, but the validity of those teams as actual competition for the old-timers of this division, well i guess we'll just have to wait and see!

 

[rallycat97]

teal is looking tacky, this has gotten way out of hand and ya'l r looking foolish with all the accusations. the kids read the boards, what kind of example r u sending by pointing fingers? these kids have friends all over allstar gyms, dont ruin it for them! you hate wc, we get it! let this end now its so trashy

From my earlier post.....Please keep in mind that not everyone attacking World Cup is directly associated with CEA. Some of these people really don't have a clue what they are talking about and are speaking of things they've heard about, but not what they've experienced themselves. Try to keep that in mind. Some of us "Teal" people do try to keep things logical and respectful. On the other hand there are others that insist on stirring the pot. My thing is if people are going to stir the pot, they shouldn't stir it off of what they've heard, but what they've experienced. There are few occassions that I've seen on here, where people speak to their actual experiences...........

 

[rallycat97]

Very Good Points! I like you.....

Thank you. Much appreciated it.

 

[Cheeranamo]

From my earlier post.....Please keep in mind that not everyone attacking World Cup is directly associated with CEA. Some of these people really don't have a clue what they are talking about and are speaking of things they've heard about, but not what they've experienced themselves. Try to keep that in mind. Some of us "Teal" people do try to keep things logical and respectful. On the other hand there are others that insist on stirring the pot. My thing is if people are going to stir the pot, they shouldn't stir it off of what they've heard, but what they've experienced. There are few occassions that I've seen on here, where people speak to their actual experiences...........

Good point, but unfortunately since one of the main owners of the gym made the statements she did she has become the voice of CEA in this situation. I'm sure there are a lot of "teal" people who are respectful and logical but that is overshadowed by your gym owner's statement.

 

[ringchaser]

amen to that!

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I was once in a partnership where two of the partners really did not like eachother. They wanted more than anything else to out do the other in every aspect of the business. They wanted to be the best, and they wanted to beat the other one doing it. One had to win, one had to lose. They mixed like oil and water. But they were both very, very good at what they did, in fact, due to their competitive nature and passion, they were the most productive and creative in the partnership. And the partnership flourished due to their competition. Sometimes they both went over the top a bit trying to gain an advantage, and when they did the group settled the disputes, reset the "rules of engagement" and they immeditately went back to trying to win under the new rules. No kum bay ya moment ever occured. But the excellence they expressed in their work defined the best in the business. And the senior partners were at times ecstatic, at times outraged, but they always found a way to wink and nod and give thanks for their good fortune. This shall pass. Sometimes a little public airing sanitizes the laundry, sometimes it stains the clothes. We here will express our support or outrage depending on our pov, while the whole time we are enjoying the drama and a glimpse into the inner workings of the cheer industry. You gotta love King for the forum.

 

[rallycat97]

Yes...right, wrong, or indifferent Courtney did make her statement. I quite honestly am not shocked or surprised. She has NEVER been known to bite her tongue or back down from anything that she feels passionately about. As the old saying goes..if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. At the end of the day, I pride myself on not judging people for their actions. Nor is it my time now to begin judging. What I will say is this. We are all human and we've all done things that were questionable and/or wrong and have all made mistakes. No one is perfect. When we look at the reasons that we may have done those things...no one else may understand them but us. To be quite honest, NONE of us know the entire history/story/details of what has gone on in this industry and the struggles/pain/tears/and sacrifices that individuals have made to build their gyms to where they are today. On top of the fact that these people still have normal lives, families, problems that don't revolve around cheerleading. I will say, at least I for one know her thoughts as she did put it out for the world to see. I will say it takes a lot of courage to do that and to essentially make yourself a target. She could be politically correct, but then again that's not everyone's personality to be. Whether you like Courtney or what she says really has nothing to do with the fact that ultimately it has nothing to do with respecting, supporting, and loving the actual kids that compete. As an adult, I am able to separate the 2.

 

[PghxCheer2]

I She specifically said, " its our NJ friends who are trying to delete this division in a self serving way to even their playing field. It has nothing to do with safety or growing the division and everything to do with being competitive." To say WC does not care about the safety of the athletes is just wrong. Essentially she is trying to keep this division in a "self-serving" way (tuition from those athletes..) so to add to it, it is a hypocritical statement.

Where did she say that? if she even did that wasn't the post I was referring to. And are you not being hypocritical by pointing fingers and saying that she is in to save this division for her own self gain? There have been plenty of valid points from both sides if you ask me, and is she not allowed to support something from the heart just because she runs a successful gym? Is it not wrong to assume she is in it for the money, especially when she has built her gym on routines that express a story and pure heart? I don't 100% agree with the way she brought it up. She probably could have worded it better. But if she is basing her opinion off of past experience and knowledge (as most of us do), and her gym doesn't have a substantial amount of athletes burning out or injuring themselves doing these skills, why would she have any reason to get rid of the division? That's what I took out of it and that's where I agree with it.

 

[Cheeranamo]

Where did she say that? if she even did that wasn't the post I was referring to. And are you not being hypocritical by pointing fingers and saying that she is in to save this division for her own self gain? There have been plenty of valid points from both sides if you ask me, and is she not allowed to support something from the heart just because she runs a successful gym? Is it not wrong to assume she is in it for the money, especially when she has built her gym on routines that express a story and pure heart? I don't 100% agree with the way she brought it up. She probably could have worded it better. But if she is basing her opinion off of past experience and knowledge (as most of us do), and her gym doesn't have a substantial amount of athletes burning out or injuring themselves doing these skills, why would she have any reason to get rid of the division? That's what I took out of it and that's where I agree with it.

I understand your skepticism and I should have posted where it was written, It was said by her on FB on Joseph Carpinetti's wall. I was not being hypocritical, I was making an making observation that she blatently made the point that WC was pushing this for self-serving reasons when in the end all sides are self-serving in some way or another. It is okay to express ones self without putting another gym down. Large gym or small gym she is a coach who, by choosing the occupation she did, put herself in the position to be a role-model and leader. So the way she went about it was wrong and sets a bad example of how to express ones view to her athletes. She doesn't have to want to get rid of the division, she can express her views, all without calling out a specific gym. CEA has amazing athletes of all ages who should know this sport is filled with politics but how to handle everything in stride and with pride in themselves and it is my opinion that is not the example that was set.

 

[NJ Coach]

Not that I want to stick my head in the lion's mouth...but,

Here is the original proposal to get rid of youth 5. Technically it did originate here in NJ

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//notesfrommeetings/L5_YouthTwo_7_24_10.pdf

Here's another one from NJ, also advocating getting rid of youth 5, but creating a Jr open instead.

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//notesfrommeetings/L5_Youth_7_24_10.pdf

Here's yet another one from NJ (and the first from WC) advocating restricted tosses.

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//notesfrommeetings/L5_YouthDivision_Baskets_6_2_10.pdf

Another one from WC advocating restricted tosses

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//notesfrommeetings/L5_Youth_Baskets_6_3_10.pdf

Last one from WC (and last yth5 that I found) advocates restricted tumbling

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//notesfrommeetings/L5_Youth_Tumbling_6_2_10.pdf

So, yes, it does look like all proposals concerning Youth 5 have come from us up here in Jersey. Have at it

 

[Cheeranamo]

I understand your skepticism and I should have posted where it was written, It was said by her on FB on Joseph Carpinetti's wall. I was not being hypocritical, I was making an making observation that she blatently made the point that WC was pushing this for self-serving reasons when in the end all sides are self-serving in some way or another. It is okay to express ones self without putting another gym down. Large gym or small gym she is a coach who, by choosing the occupation she did, put herself in the position to be a role-model and leader. So the way she went about it was wrong and sets a bad example of how to express ones view to her athletes. She doesn't have to want to get rid of the division, she can express her views, all without calling out a specific gym. CEA has amazing athletes of all ages who should know this sport is filled with politics but how to handle everything in stride and with pride in themselves and it is my opinion that is not the example that was set.

Edited to say "I was not being hypocritical, I was making an making observation that she blatently made the point that "their New Jersey friends" were pushing this for self-serving reasons when in the end all sides are self-serving in some way or another."

 

[coachmomx2]

If this division is going out this year (with whatever is voted on) why not all show up and battle it out on stage at Cheersport or NCA!
Youth 5 dawg fight 2011!!!

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

If this division is going out this year (with whatever is voted on) why not all show up and battle it out on stage at Cheersport or NCA!
Youth 5 dawg fight 2011!!!

i think they do this anyways because those are the the few places they actually have competition