All-Star Gym Owners Refusing To Sign Release... Appeal Process?..

[wcdad]

Something would have to be wrong with the gym in your example or the cheerleaders wouldn't want to leave.

I dont think so. I have seen where a gym is trying to build a level 5 program. They compeated level 5 with a few kids that had the true skill, and by April thoese True level 5 kids were asked to "fill in" on a worlds team. Never to return. Nothing was wrong with the other gym, great coaches / staff and owner. The only thing "wrong " was they could not field a true level 5 team.

 

[likemotherlikedaughter]

I am just speaking hypothetically. My CP is only 11. But she has the skills for lvl 5 and has been "patiently" waiting for the day she gets to go to worlds;-). I think the situation I'm referring to ... the CP didn't realize by Nov 1st the team was in trouble. I'm wondering why its okay for coaches to put together teams like this.. a few talented lvl 5 kids and all it takes us an injury or two and that team is all done...how is that being a responsible gym owner or coach?

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[wcdad]

I am just speaking hypothetically. My CP is only 11. But she has the skills for lvl 5 and has been "patiently" waiting for the day she gets to go to worlds;-). I think the situation I'm referring to ... the CP didn't realize by Nov 1st the team was in trouble. I'm wondering why its okay for coaches to put together teams like this.. a few talented lvl 5 kids and all it takes us an injury or two and that team is all done...how is that being a responsible gym owner or coach?

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You are correct. There are many gyms out there looking to field a level 5 team with a true level 4 team. Because they have 2 or 3 kids that can throw fulls.

 

[REA Dad]

I dont think so. I have seen where a gym is trying to build a level 5 program. They compeated level 5 with a few kids that had the true skill, and by April thoese True level 5 kids were asked to "fill in" on a worlds team. Never to return. Nothing was wrong with the other gym, great coaches / staff and owner. The only thing "wrong " was they could not field a true level 5 team.

We'll have to agree to disagree because I feel that trying to a field a level 5 team when the cheerleaders aren't capable is a HUGE "wrong" and don't blame a true level 5 cheerleader for wanting to leave that situation.

 

[wcdad]

We'll have to agree to disagree because I feel that trying to a field a level 5 team when the cheerleaders aren't capable is a HUGE "wrong" and don't blame a true level 5 cheerleader for wanting to leave that situation.

I agree with this 100%.. The question would need to be asked at that point as a parent are you not aware by November 1 of this?

 

[kristenthegreat]

We'll have to agree to disagree because I feel that trying to a field a level 5 team when the cheerleaders aren't capable is a HUGE "wrong" and don't blame a true level 5 cheerleader for wanting to leave that situation.

But wouldn't you know by Nov 1st if that situation would arise? Athletes don't magically en masse gain/lose skills after November. Things get polished and added in, sure. But if a level 5 team hinges on 2 or 3 athletes, you're backing a one-trick pony.

What does the gym owe you as an athlete? Training? Is there ANY guarantee that the teams they list in the beginning of the year are set in stone? Is part of the business transaction (money paid for 'X') a certain team level? Does this only apply for Worlds teams (I'm paying this gym to take me to Worlds)? What if they don't get a bid? What if they do but it's not paid, is it ok to leave then? What about lower levels? Do you leave if you go from level 4 to 3? What about 3 to 4? What if you get bumped to a lower level?

At what point do you get release appeals for any of above? I say, never. You are owed training, you aren't owed anything else. When you pay for any other sport, you are paying for training and competition, you are NOT paying for a guarantee that you will go to the Olympics or any other major championship. That might be a hope or goal, but nothing else.

 

[Valvalmom]

Suppose your lvl 5 worlds team was dropped to lvl 4...what is the big deal signing a release for someone to go and compete on a world's team? By then you're lvl 4 team's comp season is pretty much over! And I am sorry but if this was happening to my kid I would be beyond pissed :O I have invested way too much time and $ in my child's sport. Lets face it cheerleading is not cheap! And my CP has worked their butt off for how many years to have the skills to go to worlds? I would be suing the gym owner for breaking their promise to my child

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But what's the difference between continuing to compete at a worlds level and placing poorly/not getting a bid and dropping a level to make them competitive? Using the "drop a level" clause to get a release signed, couldn't you also say your contract should be voided if the team is performing poorly? Or if the team chose to withdraw from bid qualifiers as the season went on? What is the athlete's "right" as far as getting to worlds? There are no guarantees.

 

[Valvalmom]

We'll have to agree to disagree because I feel that trying to a field a level 5 team when the cheerleaders aren't capable is a HUGE "wrong" and don't blame a true level 5 cheerleader for wanting to leave that situation.

But you should have awareness of that situation early on. You think a true level 5 cheerleader wouldn't realize she was the only one with level 5 skills within the first few practices?

 

[newcheerdad]

I think we should broaden the discussion beyond the whole "level 5 team disbands" premise to something more general - whether it's ok for an athlete to leave mid-season for another gym, and if that athlete should be allowed to compete at Worlds for that new gym.

That's really what we're talking about here. And I think once you start getting into "valid reasons for denying a transfer request" or "valid reasons for leaving a gym", you get into all sorts of grey areas. The reason I might think is valid to deny someone a transfer might be completely outrageous to someone else.

So for me, it really comes back to the question of whether the gym should have the ability to deny someone the ability to compete for another Worlds team or not. I can see the argument from the gym owner's perspective - that the current rule prevents kids from gym hopping and unscrupulous gym owners from recruiting kids to their program. But if I'm paying thousands of dollars for my child to cheer (keep in mind we're not talking about scholarship athletes here) I'd want at least some ability to leave a program if I felt it was warranted, yet still give her the option to participate on a Worlds team.

So I come back to my premise - which isn't all that far from what some of you are saying. I'm saying if you transfer you have to sit out from competition for at least 90 days, which effectively is the end of January. (although in practice it's actually more like December if you want to actually compete with that team and be on the floor when they get a world's bid). Some people are saying that you can't leave after November 1. Let's split the difference then and say mid-December, or even January 1, and have it be a situation where the release is automatic (provided you are up to date financially) before that date. After that date, then the gym has the right of refusal. That gives the athlete more time to determine whether they're in the right program or not, while giving the gym a decent amount of time to find a replacement if someone should leave.

 

[debbie]

I think the usasf needs to come up with an appeals process but oh I forgot they are just so busy making sure everyone buys new uniforms next year! What is important for them and not the sport is quite clear

 

[Deleted member 15]

I think the usasf needs to come up with an appeals process but oh I forgot they are just so busy making sure everyone buys new uniforms next year! What is important for them and not the sport is quite clear

Why don't the people that want an appeals process come up with it and send it to the USASF?

 

[Cheer Dad]

Ive also had several parents tell me that their travel soccer and baseball has basically the same rule. Once a season starts, you can't go to another team.

Hockey has a release protocol which includes financial and timing aspects. There is an appeal process as well though.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Why don't the people that want an appeals process come up with it and send it to the USASF?

Was just thinking of this just now.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Anyone want to help me come up with an appeals process for gym closings ONLY? How about we start with something we can all agree on, and those who want to go further can

 

[Nothanks]

Anyone want to help me come up with an appeals process for gym closings ONLY? How about we start with something we can all agree on, and those who want to go further can

I'm in.