All-Star Knowing There Are Illegal Athletes On Your Team

[ztaprincess]

"We tend to be more forgiving with International Teams"
Really? I coach an 'international' team. I don't think that we need any special circumstances. Maybe I'm over sensitive, but that feels like such a pat on the head "oh those international teams. We know you guys don't understand our rules" response.

I don't care if you're from North Carolina, Manitoba, Bangladesh, Paris or the moon, rules are rules. Or at least they should be.

Good for you ztaprincess.

It are comments like what that e-mail said that make people believe that the International teams get special treatment. It makes me feel bad for the International teams because they want to be treated just like the US teams, but the USASF says things like that.

It makes it sound like the part saying "may" forefit their opportunity to go to worlds the following year is saying that the team gets to choose if they will attend or not. You don't have the word "may" in a set of rules. I offically have no faith in the USASF to do the right thing. I have voiced my opinion before and almost stood up for the USASF in doing what is right in situations, but this proves me so wrong and I feel silly for ever believing it. There are some good people that work with the USASF so I don't want it to sound like I dislike all of them, but there are others that are seriously looking out for only themselves.

 

[Ashley]

"We tend to be more forgiving with International Teams"

AKA we gave Bangkok a first place win in 2011 because we could.

 

[ztaprincess]

AKA we gave Bangkok a first place win in 2011 because we could.

See the e-mail never gave me a clear answer if FTG was disqualified, though I have received many PM messages saying that they were. If they were disqualified then that was the same year they ignored everything with Bangkok and awarded them 1st place. They can't even give all the International teams the same treatment.

 

[Ashley]

It are comments like what that e-mail said that make people believe that the International teams get special treatment. It makes me feel bad for the International teams because they want to be treated just like the US teams, but the USASF says things like that.

It makes it sound like the part saying "may" forefit their opportunity to go to worlds the following year is saying that the team gets to choose if they will attend or not. You don't have the word "may" in a set of rules. I offically have no faith in the USASF to do the right thing. I have voiced my opinion before and almost stood up for the USASF in doing what is right in situations, but this proves me so wrong and I feel silly for ever believing it. There are some good people that work with the USASF so I don't want it to sound like I dislike all of them, but there are others that are seriously looking out for only themselves.

I mean, I get their point. Other countries have completely different age grids and it might be really difficult to replace teammates to adhere to USASF rules/age grids. But it just kind of reeks of "well until an international team actually stands a chance of winning, we won't do anything about it." The Canadian and Norwegian teams that actually have medaled would probably be the only ones that action would be taken against. Otherwise it's just a slap on the wrist.

 

[ztaprincess]

The screen cap that I have from the Behavior/Risk Compliance as well as what Mr. Peterson quoted are both in the Worlds Packet. If they don't want it to be confusing they should probably remove one of them or reword them so they both say the same thing. One uses "may" and the other doesn't.

He also said that they will be addressing this kind of situation, is that because it is being pointed out that they are letting things like this slide or are they truly concerned about it. With the reply I got I want to say they are trying to cover their own mistakes instead of coming forward and saying they can't give all teams the same treatment.

Basically if it were a US team they wouldn't be given the same treatment that an International team would.

 

[XtremeWpg]

The screen cap that I have from the Behavior/Risk Compliance as well as what Mr. Peterson quoted are both in the Worlds Packet. If they don't want it to be confusing they should probably remove one of them or reword them so they both say the same thing. One uses "may" and the other doesn't.

He also said that they will be addressing this kind of situation, is that because it is being pointed out that they are letting things like this slide or are they truly concerned about it. With the reply I got I want to say they are trying to cover their own mistakes instead of coming forward and saying they can't give all teams the same treatment.

Basically if it were a US team they wouldn't be given the same treatment that an International team would.

This. Makes. Me. Bonkers.

It should be an across the board thing. If you do something illegal (ages, number of males, standing quadruple, number of athletes on the floor, whatever) everyone should be penalized the same. I understand making some concessions for countries that actually have a separate age grid, I get that. But when teams knowingly, outwardly and maliciously do things...well it grinds my gears.
I work my butt of making sure everything my athletes do is legal for thier level, for that competition and the score sheet they're being judged on. I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect others, regardless of country, to do the same.

Then again, I also expected that the people in charge of Worlds and setting these rules would follow them as well. I guess I'm a sucker.

 

[Emily]

I already answered in the other thread, but here again: I got an e-mail back from the EP who awarded the bid, and before giving me out any detailed information they want to know my background about my involvment with this case .

 

[Aussiekat]

If I don't medal with my army of 14 year old feti on IOC6 next year I am calling shenanigans!

ztaprincess Don't let up, we got your back!

 

[lakerfantlc]

We had that happen..(not at Cali)..but the coaches knew there were a couple of kids older than the rules allowed....I was mad that they would take the chance...they got turned in but I was sad they tried it...I think following the rules is huge...our kids are learning stuff everyday...IMO

 

[CheerBank]

We had that happen..(not at Cali)..but the coaches knew there were a couple of kids older than the rules allowed....I was mad that they would take the chance...they got turned in but I was sad they tried it...I think following the rules is huge...our kids are learning stuff everyday...IMO

That is what infuritates me - that coaches are willing to take that chance. They are willing to sacrifice the entire rest of the team for that one (or two) athlete(s). I'm not sure if it's a god complex that some of them think they are above the rules or just that they won't get caught, but having been at a gym that subscribed to an illegal athlete mantra for years and continues to do so, I would never do so again and if my cp's current gym did this we would be out the door in a heartbeat. And my cp knows this. It also seems that when these gyms get caught they are mad at the people who turned them in, instead of being mad at themselves for breaking the rules in the first place.

 

[pctmom]

I'm gonna chime in on this one with what I know and the issues that are underlying. The fundamental issue with this (and the current age grids) is that the USASF and the IASF do NOT have the same age grid, timing, or rules. When you add this to the ICU differences it makes for a very confused, very difficult to manage weekend of cheerleading in Orlando.

Let me explain.

Coed Premier at ICU allows for athletes 15 years and older (in the year of the competition) AND in 2011 there was no limit on the number of males you could have on a team. This event is "sold" to International teams as an opportunity to compete for your country (on the Friday) and for your club (on the Saturday/Sunday). Not bad: come halfway across the world for 3 runs.

All amazing except that the rules change on the Saturday and Sunday AND MOST International Teams (that competed at ICU) never filled out, never signed and never saw the USASF Worlds Package - you can register with just the ICU package and a phone call.

This isn't me making excuses, as I firmly believe that cheating is cheating. This is however, I'm pretty positive an honest mistake. I believe its due to a fundamental error in the way the ICU, USASF and IASF are run.

Fast forward to today. No age grids yet and we are being told that the USA age grid does not apply to the rest of the World. So when a mistake like this happens again because the International teams have a different set of rule, ages, and expectations is this board going to go nuts and have folks calling asking for teams to be banned and barred? Lets realize that this is an issue with the organizing body from the start.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

I'm gonna chime in on this one with what I know and the issues that are underlying. The fundamental issue with this (and the current age grids) is that the USASF and the IASF do NOT have the same age grid, timing, or rules. When you add this to the ICU differences it makes for a very confused, very difficult to manage weekend of cheerleading in Orlando.

Let me explain.

Coed Premier at ICU allows for athletes 15 years and older (in the year of the competition) AND in 2011 there was no limit on the number of males you could have on a team. This event is "sold" to International teams as an opportunity to compete for your country (on the Friday) and for your club (on the Saturday/Sunday). Not bad: come halfway across the world for 3 runs.

All amazing except that the rules change on the Saturday and Sunday AND MOST International Teams (that competed at ICU) never filled out, never signed and never saw the USASF Worlds Package - you can register with just the ICU package and a phone call.

This isn't me making excuses, as I firmly believe that cheating is cheating. This is however, I'm pretty positive an honest mistake. I believe its due to a fundamental error in the way the ICU, USASF and IASF are run.

Fast forward to today. No age grids yet and we are being told that the USA age grid does not apply to the rest of the World. So when a mistake like this happens again because the International teams have a different set of rule, ages, and expectations is this board going to go nuts and have folks calling asking for teams to be banned and barred? Lets realize that this is an issue with the organizing body from the start.

But as far as I know, Germany has a national team they send to ICU - which is organized over their national organization. The team that was at the IASF got a bid from an EP....

But yes, this is an underlying problem. But I know in some countries, the age grid is being changed to conform to other countries.

 

[pctmom]

In 2011 it was the same team.

 

[Kelli Nicole]

In 2011 it was the same team.

Not the same team that was at BOTH ICU and IASF.

It was the same team at the IASF in 2011 and 2012, yes.

 

[pctmom]

Then we agree to disagree. In speaking with the German coach (I am one of the Canadian Coaches) I was told that in 2011 the FTC Bullets were the reps for Germany for the ICU and then at the USASF competition.

The underlying issues remain. Different rules/ages/team makeups create confusion and difficulties (see Thailand), add language barriers and you've got yourself a mess.