All-Star Let Us Ponder Why There Is Not A Sr Coed 2?

[cheercurl]

Having 3 beastly men on a senior 2 team is obviously a significant advantage... How can it be fair to a team that is all girls? It just seems rather odd when you see it in person...Picture this: TOP GUN IOC2 going against Orange Sm. Sr 2. pretend they are two of the best teams in their division. Can you see how that might look a little lopsided despite both being phenomenal?

I understand that this is perfectly legal and I even understand that neither team is being judged on coed stunting abilities but those 3 Hulks are putting up stunts by themselves... it just seems strange when you compare the teams side by side.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

I think the idea is that the skills in level 1 and level 2 are so limited that the playing field is pretty equal. Stunts at prep level require less strength to base than extended stunts, so the added strength of manly muscles doesn't really serve as an advantage.

 

[cheercurl]

I can see that but, let's say 3 men put up 3 stunts while the rest put up 3-4 stunts....it impressively fills the mat. Even the very best all girl teams are not going to be able to get 3 one mans up...very unlikely. Watch a great Sr 2 team compete and then watch a great Sr "Coed 2" team compete. I am telling you it's rather odd. I keep thinking they can't possibly be in the same division as that all-girl team that just went..."Oh wait...they are."

One beastly boy doesn't seem to impact the routine but you add 3-4 beastly boys with 5 O'clock shadow and it doesn't seem fair or rather it seems odd.

 

[stuntjumptumble]

Interesting point. When I cheered at a small gym, the coaches pulled 4 boys from the sr coed 4 team to cross down to my sr 2 team at the time. The tumbling, stunting, everything was helped tremendously by these boys and we were always considered all girl. Now I view that as sandbagging and I disagree with it. Definitely an interesting point though. I do think there are less boys competing at level 2


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[cheercurl]

Interesting point. When I cheered at a small gym, the coaches pulled 4 boys from the sr coed 4 team to cross down to my sr 2 team at the time. The tumbling, stunting, everything was helped tremendously by these boys and we were always considered all girl. Now I view that as sandbagging and I disagree with it. Definitely an interesting point though. I do think there are less boys competing at level 2


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That is what it feels like "sandbagging" but I get that those are the rules.

 

[BlueCat]

No matter where you draw the line between divisions, you can always come up with some example of where one team is at a disadvantage compared to others. ("OMG, how can my team with 1 boy compete against a team with 3", etc.) Short of having a thousand divisions and no one to ever compete against, the divisions are distributed as fairly as is reasonably possible, IMO.

 

[embersglow]

We usually have a distinction between coed and all girl from level 1 in the UK, especially for university teams. Over here the lower levels are saturated (good thing! Lots of new cheerleaders!) and only a handful compete at levels 5 and 6 so it seems like a natural place to start when forming divisions. Any splits based on number of athletes are made after if needed.


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[EnglishRose]

I remember competing L2 and we were up against a couple of teams with a LOT of guys (we were AG). They threw up a bunch of single based stunts, a huge pyramid because they had all the braces single based. They beat us and a lot of parents were really mad.

My coaches took us back to the gym, worked on a new pyramid with single based braces and extensions, a duel based lib section, etc etc. We girls got stronger and we took 2nd at the next comp.

I personally would rather compete against 20 teams with a mix than 4 or 5 if we were divided into AG, limited coed, coed...

Ironically, when I competed small coed 4 we had the full quota of boys and another team we competed against only had 1. They moaned, but in reality some of our girls were just as strong and tall as the boys.

I think the push at L2 to get strong was great. I would never have thought I could single base, but doing prep level libs and braced extensions helped me get strong. I'm damn sure that helped in me making AG5 at a new gym (because it sure as heck wasn't my epic tumble skills of dodgy BHS and low punch front!)


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[retiredl5cheer]

Jumping off of @EnglishRose's point-- the level 2 skills are much easier to single base than level 3/4/5 skills. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a girl can single base a walk-in hands or a 1-legged stunt at prep level. Those skills are about technique, not raw strength.

 

[Rudags]

@cheercurl - Lets chat about it in Ohio

 

[AndrewSky]

If you consider 4.2, boys would be a considerable advantage.

 

[xomckenzieee]

If you consider 4.2, boys would be a considerable advantage.

That's a very good point. Now you have boys doing higher level stunts against teams of all girls. I know when the division first came out they didn't split it but now that it's a pretty popular division, I wonder if they will consider it.

 

[canz]

We did have senior coed 2 in New Zealand last season and maybe the season before as there were gyms with between 3 and i think it was 6 boys on the team. They were tossing to extension with an assist etc in their quantity stunt whereas the all girl teams were doing double based libs. They're both level appropriate but our feeling was that the coed stunts at that level were so impressive that it was a disadvantage to all girl teams who couldn't match those skills.

 

[AScheer]

Now that I'm thinking about it I don't know that I've ever seen a coed sr 2. Must admit there aren't any in our area and I don't keep up with that division, so I may just be living under an unobservant rock. Most guys at the senior age start out learning tucks, not handsprings. Could this be a reason most aren't put on a level 2? Their strength is much more beneficial to a higher level for stunting and more than likely their tumbling will hurt or not contribute to a level 2 team.


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[retiredl5cheer]

Now that I'm thinking about it I don't know that I've ever seen a coed sr 2. Must admit there aren't any in our area and I don't keep up with that division, so I may just be living under an unobservant rock. Most guys at the senior age start out learning tucks, not handsprings. Could this be a reason most aren't put on a level 2? Their strength is much more beneficial to a higher level for stunting and more than likely their tumbling will hurt or not contribute to a level 2 team.


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They're out there, but not terribly common. We've had coed senior 2's at one of our gyms for the past 2 or 3 years. In our case, they're boys that are completely new to the sport and come in with no skills. They're usually able to get handsprings pretty quickly, but ALL of their skills need work. Actually, we've always had teeny skinny boys on our senior 2's, so they haven't given a significant advantage. Two of them were even forced to fly in quantity stunts.