All-Star News Show On Cheer Safety

[yojaehs]

I think this was a good piece. I think the rare condition no one knew about that could have happened in any sport so that's a bit drastic. I 100% agree that coaches training is the #1 most important part of getting cheerleading safer.

I am annoyed at watching people say that money is an issue. If money is an issue and a school can't provide safe football helmets then the school doesn't have a football team. It might suck, it might eliminate a few schools from having cheerleading. Oh well, at least the kids that ARE cheering are doing it safely. I'll even go a step further, if you don't have the money to make Cheer a sport at your school then you shouldn't be stunting anyway. Make a dance team, don't stunt, don't tumble and keep your KIDS safe.

I will continue that an online test is a joke, waste of time, waste of money. UNLESS it is HANDS ON TRAINING don't waste your time. I'm so sick of these bandaids that just cover the wound and don't FIX THE PROBLEM!

 

[weheartcheer]

I think you all are looking at it as: This girl had a rare condition that this would have happened anywhere.

I look at it as does untrained coaches create an environment when people do have rare conditions they will with a higher percentage of bad things happening. It is all about signal and noise in statistics (read Signal and the Noise by Nate Silver! great book).

It is all about percentage chance of things going wrong. Bad coaches mean higher percentage. No mats: higher percentage. Non spring floor: higher percentage.

Just to clarify, Patty does not have a rare heart condition. Her heart was & is healthy. What happened to her is called commotio cordis. It happens very rarely, sometimes in baseball. It is when your heart is tapped on at the EXACT right moment between beats. 50 jules is about how little force is needed for this to occur.

 

[King]

Just to clarify, Patty does not have a rare heart condition. Her heart was & is healthy. What happened to her is called commotio cordis. It happens very rarely, sometimes in baseball. It is when your heart is tapped on at the EXACT right moment between beats. 50 jules is about how little force is needed for this to occur.

Ahh, sorry. So it wasnt a condition or malformity it was hole-in-one moment? Then the question becomes do certain actions and situations increase the chance of this hole-in-one moment?

 

[weheartcheer]

Ahh, sorry. So it wasnt a condition or malformity it was hole-in-one moment? Then the question becomes do certain actions and situations increase the chance of this hole-in-one moment?

Yes, that 50-joules can even be lowered if the person is under ischemic conditions, which is when blood flow is restricted. Can happen from drug use, sickle cell, as well as induced g-forces like acrobatics and military flying.

 

[GreatWhite92]

Ahh, sorry. So it wasnt a condition or malformity it was hole-in-one moment? Then the question becomes do certain actions and situations increase the chance of this hole-in-one moment?

I feel like if we wanted to keep this rare situation from happening then we wouldn't be able to catch practically any basket or cradle. I mean yea a drastic story is gonna help the story but I don't think we should ban all baskets and cradles because of a freak accident. Especially because it said her bases caught her. I just don't like the example. If they would of used someone who broke their back because they were dropped on an unsafe surface that would get the point across about regulating these things.

 

[King]

I feel like if we wanted to keep this rare situation from happening then we wouldn't be able to catch practically any basket or cradle. I mean yea a drastic story is gonna help the story but I don't think we should ban all baskets and cradles because of a freak accident. Especially because it said her bases caught her. I just don't like the example. If they would of used someone who broke their back because they were dropped on an unsafe surface that would get the point across about regulating these things.

I think that is assuming that this rare instance happening more often is NOT dependent on coaches and other factors.

First, things will ALWAYS happen. It isn't a matter of preventing anything from ever happening (because that is impossible) but making sure you lower the risk to an acceptable amount.

If bad coaching means you are more likely to get caught wrong which means more likely to have this happen, let us say a 1 in 5,000 chance ,where as proper coaching and surface means this is a 1 in 1,000,000 chance then I think you could properly and safely allow the skills to be performed. For reference there is a 1 in 20,000 chance of dying in a plane crash.

 

[ashscott41]

Ahh, sorry. So it wasnt a condition or malformity it was hole-in-one moment? Then the question becomes do certain actions and situations increase the chance of this hole-in-one moment?

I think release moves to prone landings are the biggest thing that we commonly do in cheer that could possibly lead to this specific cardiac event. The "danger zone" is between the second and fourth ribs on the left side and during a 10-30 millisecond window of each heartbeat. One catch goes wrong and it could easily happen. However, this problem is so rare (fewer than 200 events in the US in an 11 year period and almost all in males) that we shouldn't be focusing all of our discussion on commotio cordis. Freak accidents can happen anywhere. I think we need to be more concerned about the things we can stop with proper coaches training and safety equipment.

 

[King]

I think release moves to prone landings are the biggest thing that we commonly do in cheer that could possibly lead to this specific cardiac event. The "danger zone" is between the second and fourth ribs on the left side and during a 10-30 millisecond window of each heartbeat. One catch goes wrong and it could easily happen. However, this problem is so rare (fewer than 200 events in the US in an 11 year period and almost all in males) that we shouldn't be focusing all of our discussion on commotio cordis. Freak accidents can happen anywhere. I think we need to be more concerned about the things we can stop with proper coaches training and safety equipment.

Agreed, which is why I was saying do the chances increase because of certain variables. You can't control the end result, but just the contributing factors along the way that lead to an environment of these sort of things. To not overly focus on that one type of injury it is worth noting that the situation we are describing would also mean other types of injuries are more likely as well.

 

[GreatWhite92]

I think that is assuming that this rare instance happening more often is NOT dependent on coaches and other factors.

First, things will ALWAYS happen. It isn't a matter of preventing anything from ever happening (because that is impossible) but making sure you lower the risk to an acceptable amount.

If bad coaching means you are more likely to get caught wrong which means more likely to have this happen, let us say a 1 in 5,000 chance ,where as proper coaching and surface means this is a 1 in 1,000,000 chance then I think you could properly and safely allow the skills to be performed. For reference there is a 1 in 20,000 chance of dying in a plane crash.

Which is true. I am more looking at this from a media point of view. I don't want parents to think that because their daughters a flier that their hearts gonna stop. I think they can however notice what type of surface their child is practicing on and be more aware of the dangers with each surface. I cringe at those girls throwing baskets on concrete almost more than I did about the story but that's because I know the dangers of that concrete where it could practically happen to anyone who is dropped rather than a 1 in 1000000 chance of this rare situation.

 

[King]

Which is true. I am more looking at this from a media point of view. I don't want parents to think that because their daughters a flier that their hearts gonna stop. I think they can however notice what type of surface their child is practicing on and be more aware of the dangers with each surface. I cringe at those girls throwing baskets on concrete almost more than I did about the story but that's because I know the dangers of that concrete where it could practically happen to anyone who is dropped rather than a 1 in 1000000 chance of this rare situation.

I agree with you there. The practicing on concrete is WAY more likely to have bad results than anything else. I would say the incident is more a vehicle to get things moving and faster. Agree or not with the end result Sandy Hook has acted as a catalyst for something to be done about guns and gun control. I see the incident as just a way to bring attention to everything in cheer.

 

[GreatWhite92]

I agree with you there. The practicing on concrete is WAY more likely to have bad results than anything else. I would say the incident is more a vehicle to get things moving and faster. Agree or not with the end result Sandy Hook has acted as a catalyst for something to be done about guns and gun control. I see the incident as just a way to bring attention to everything in cheer.

Exactly. Which is why I think it was used more as a scare tactic. Also the parents were also willing to be interviewed and have them film inside their home. I just think way more injuries happen because of doing something stupid on a bad surface with an unqualified coach rather than this one and only time I have seen this type of injury.

 

[gofriars610]

I mean, we all know who the biggest supporters of the cheer status quo (non-sport status) are....Varsity.


and this is random but the clip at 10:57 in the video was taken at my school's gym.

 

[MyGirlCheers]

I think release moves to prone landings are the biggest thing that we commonly do in cheer that could possibly lead to this specific cardiac event. The "danger zone" is between the second and fourth ribs on the left side and during a 10-30 millisecond window of each heartbeat. One catch goes wrong and it could easily happen. However, this problem is so rare (fewer than 200 events in the US in an 11 year period and almost all in males) that we shouldn't be focusing all of our discussion on commotio cordis. Freak accidents can happen anywhere. I think we need to be more concerned about the things we can stop with proper coaches training and safety equipment.

I saw a show years ago - before CP ever even thought about cheering (so at least 10 years ago) - about a flyer who was caught and it ruptured her spleen. I think it was an under rotated full down or double down (or maybe a twisting toss, but definitely only a level 3 or 4 skill). They caught her on her side/front instead of her back. It seems a catch like this could also cause commotio cordis. I remember in the show, the girl's dad had developed a vest to be worn when flyers were learning skills where an improper catch could lead to that type of injury. I wonder if the vest would also protect from freak cardiac accidents - I know there's a padded chest protector for baseball players to prevent commotio cordis.

 

[ashscott41]

I saw a show years ago - before CP ever even thought about cheering (so at least 10 years ago) - about a flyer who was caught and it ruptured her spleen. I think it was an under rotated full down or double down (or maybe a twisting toss, but definitely only a level 3 or 4 skill). They caught her on her side/front instead of her back. It seems a catch like this could also cause commotio cordis. I remember in the show, the girl's dad had developed a vest to be worn when flyers were learning skills where an improper catch could lead to that type of injury. I wonder if the vest would also protect from freak cardiac accidents - I know there's a padded chest protector for baseball players to prevent commotio cordis.

The girl who died from the spleen rupture had mono, but chose to stunt anyway. That is another discussion for another day, but we definitely need to get better about putting health first. I initially thought about that vest too, but after I read more about CC it seems that protective padding doesn't actually help. In hockey and baseball (along with animal studies) chest protectors haven't led to a reduction in incidences of CC. I read that at least 20% of incidents occur with the child wearing protective chest plates.

 

[CricketCheerMom]

I saw a show years ago - before CP ever even thought about cheering (so at least 10 years ago) - about a flyer who was caught and it ruptured her spleen. I think it was an under rotated full down or double down (or maybe a twisting toss, but definitely only a level 3 or 4 skill). They caught her on her side/front instead of her back. It seems a catch like this could also cause commotio cordis. I remember in the show, the girl's dad had developed a vest to be worn when flyers were learning skills where an improper catch could lead to that type of injury. I wonder if the vest would also protect from freak cardiac accidents - I know there's a padded chest protector for baseball players to prevent commotio cordis.[/quote
RIP Ashley Burns.