Summit Bids

[Cheer Obsessed]

I had a few observations about Summit bid's and would like some insight on it.

Wild Card Bids - knowing that only 2 teams (now 3) move on to Finals/Semi Finals why are so many wild card bids given out for some divisions.

Paid Bids - how are teams picked for this as far as Summit? I have seem teams who win their division and are given Grand Champs at a comp but the paid bid is given to another team.

 

[cheermomforever]

Sometimes unfortunately it's not the top 2 teams who get paid Sometimes personal preference of judges.


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[Cheer Obsessed]

Ok I was thinking it had to be preference too but wasn't sure if there were rules set on how they were to be given out.
Thank you so much for your reply.

 

[cheermomforever]

Even if comp says its top 2 scores.....it may not b. We will never know because scores r not posted.


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[TheVipersMom]

Even if comp says its top 2 scores.....it may not b. We will never know because scores r not posted.


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I posted about this before but at a comp we went to the declaration said two highest scores get paid bid.
We were level 1-5 high point and we knew this. So everyone on our two highest scoring teams were told to stay to accept bid if they could. Which was s3 and s5

Paid Bids are announced and it went to our s4 and s5r which we knew s3 outscore s4.

Although we are happy that our teams were getting the paid bids, our owner tells scores so everyone knew it didn't go to the two highest scores as we thought.

Well the bid declaration says judges discretion at the bottom... When she went to them to find out why s4 got it, they said the levels were done by different panels so we reviewed all high scores by different panels with the same group of judges and decided that the judges who did s4 judged harder so their score was lower but they felt they earned the paid over the other. Yeah the other still go an at large as well as several of our other teams but that is built in to make sure it is more fair! Which although I was sad for the s3 parents who thought they were getting paid I was happy the competition company did this to ensure accuracy.

 

[klynn64]

I had a few observations about Summit bid's and would like some insight on it.

Wild Card Bids - knowing that only 2 teams (now 3) move on to Finals/Semi Finals why are so many wild card bids given out for some divisions.

Paid Bids - how are teams picked for this as far as Summit? I have seem teams who win their division and are given Grand Champs at a comp but the paid bid is given to another team.

With respect to Wildcard Bids at Summit. I think it's all marketing strategy and profit. If you look over the past few years you'll notice a lot more Paid and At Large Bids awarded. I believe this was done to bring in a lot of good teams. Teams that would not bother attending otherwise. It also got the word out and drummed up interest in Summit. As well as developing some credibity for the event itself. After a few years when they felt they had accomplished that (this year) they greatly reduced the number of Paid and At Large bids. All the while increasing the number of Wildcard Bids. They did this because it costs money to award Paid and At Large Bids. But Wilcard Bids get no financial assistance whatsoever so they stand to make a lot of money by awarding them and getting teams to pay to attend.

When it comes to awarding bids, the EP gets to decide how they want to hand out their bids. Some EPs are very good about upfront disclosure with regards to their method in awarding bids. While others, not so much. The vast majority of EPs seem to use Judges Choice as their selection method. This gives them total freedom when awarding bids. I was told that this was done so the EP has the flexibility to choose who they feel will best represent their brand and most likely bring their brand the win. Without being shackled by the scores of a specific performance or placement at an event. I'm not a cynic but I can't help but believe EPs want to use Judges Choice as their selection criteria so that they retain the ability to use the bid awarding as a means of pandering or currying favor with certain programs. Not all EPs would do this. But, I could imagine one or two less scrupulous EPs thinking like that.

I have also been told that EPs are at times uncomfortable awarding multiple bids to the same gym at an event. To be profitable you need to try to keep everyone returning to your event year after year. Gyms tend to feel there is favoritism or judging bias when one program gets all the goods. So when multiple bids are awarded at an event they like to spread the wealth so to speak and have the bids awarded to multiple programs as opposed to all bids going to just one program. I can see how this could be true sometimes.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

With respect to Wildcard Bids at Summit. I think it's all marketing strategy and profit. If you look over the past few years you'll notice a lot more Paid and At Large Bids awarded. I believe this was done to bring in a lot of good teams. Teams that would not bother attending otherwise. It also got the word out and drummed up interest in Summit. As well as developing some credibity for the event itself. After a few years when they felt they had accomplished that (this year) they greatly reduced the number of Paid and At Large bids. All the while increasing the number of Wildcard Bids. They did this because it costs money to award Paid and At Large Bids. But Wilcard Bids get no financial assistance whatsoever so they stand to make a lot of money by awarding them and getting teams to pay to attend.

When it comes to awarding bids, the EP gets to decide how they want to hand out their bids. Some EPs are very good about upfront disclosure with regards to their method in awarding bids. While others, not so much. The vast majority of EPs seem to use Judges Choice as their selection method. This gives them total freedom when awarding bids. I was told that this was done so the EP has the flexibility to choose who they feel will best represent their brand and most likely bring their brand the win. Without being shackled by the scores of a specific performance or placement at an event. I'm not a cynic but I can't help but believe EPs want to use Judges Choice as their selection criteria so that they retain the ability to use the bid awarding as a means of pandering or currying favor with certain programs. Not all EPs would do this. But, I could imagine one or two less scrupulous EPs thinking like that.

What is the cost to the EP for an at large bid??

 

[randomactsofcheer]

With respect to Wildcard Bids at Summit. I think it's all marketing strategy and profit. If you look over the past few years you'll notice a lot more Paid and At Large Bids awarded. I believe this was done to bring in a lot of good teams. Teams that would not bother attending otherwise. It also got the word out and drummed up interest in Summit. As well as developing some credibity for the event itself. After a few years when they felt they had accomplished that (this year) they greatly reduced the number of Paid and At Large bids. All the while increasing the number of Wildcard Bids. They did this because it costs money to award Paid and At Large Bids. But Wilcard Bids get no financial assistance whatsoever so they stand to make a lot of money by awarding them and getting teams to pay to attend.

By my calculations they have added almost 100 more at-large and paid Summit bids for the 2016-2017 season. It may seem like there are less bids being awarded this season because it looks like they are spread out across more competitions.

And at-large bids do not give the bid winner any financial assistance.

 

[cheermomforever]

With respect to Wildcard Bids at Summit. I think it's all marketing strategy and profit. If you look over the past few years you'll notice a lot more Paid and At Large Bids awarded. I believe this was done to bring in a lot of good teams. Teams that would not bother attending otherwise. It also got the word out and drummed up interest in Summit. As well as developing some credibity for the event itself. After a few years when they felt they had accomplished that (this year) they greatly reduced the number of Paid and At Large bids. All the while increasing the number of Wildcard Bids. They did this because it costs money to award Paid and At Large Bids. But Wilcard Bids get no financial assistance whatsoever so they stand to make a lot of money by awarding them and getting teams to pay to attend.

When it comes to awarding bids, the EP gets to decide how they want to hand out their bids. Some EPs are very good about upfront disclosure with regards to their method in awarding bids. While others, not so much. The vast majority of EPs seem to use Judges Choice as their selection method. This gives them total freedom when awarding bids. I was told that this was done so the EP has the flexibility to choose who they feel will best represent their brand and most likely bring their brand the win. Without being shackled by the scores of a specific performance or placement at an event. I'm not a cynic but I can't help but believe EPs want to use Judges Choice as their selection criteria so that they retain the ability to use the bid awarding as a means of pandering or currying favor with certain programs. Not all EPs would do this. But, I could imagine one or two less scrupulous EPs thinking like that.

I have also been told that EPs are at times uncomfortable awarding multiple bids to the same gym at an event. To be profitable you need to try to keep everyone returning to your event year after year. Gyms tend to feel there is favoritism or judging bias when one program gets all the goods. So when multiple bids are awarded at an event they like to spread the wealth so to speak and have the bids awarded to multiple programs as opposed to all bids going to just one program. I can see how this could be true sometimes.

At a comp this year the same gym
got both paid bids, we were grand champ of our level, so there is no rhyme or reason sometimes.

 

[SharkDad]

1. Let's make sure that it's clear that @klynn64's observation is based on her opinion and not based on facts from what I have read. (Not discounting it but realize there is often more to the story of "why" an EP awards bids a certain way)

2. You all realize that the awarding of paid bids is always much less than the cost to a participant and family right? (in other words they always make more off you than they award in a bid, be it worlds, summit, US finals etc.)

 

[TheVipersMom]

The last two years we have taken almost all our bids from the same competition. (Our first summit competition of the season)


This competition gives it to who earns them and doesn't try to please everyone. Unlike some competitions I feel that try to make everyone win something. This comp is not one of those but it is by far my most favorite!

We took 2 paid and 4 at larges from the same competition, leaving only 2 of our teams without a bid after the first competition. Those two teams would go on to get paid at the next 2 competitions so it was all good.

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[MomMomMamaMom]

The last two years we have taken almost all our bids from the same competition. (Our first summit competition of the season)


This competition gives it to who earns them and doesn't try to please everyone. Unlike some competitions I feel that try to make everyone win something. This comp is not one of those but it is by far my most favorite!

We took 2 paid and 4 at larges from the same competition, leaving only 2 of our teams without a bid after the first competition. Those two teams would go on to get paid at the next 2 competitions so it was all good.

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Which company is it? I like when comps give out the bids based on merit, for sure. But I'm curious how the numbers will play out this year...because I can kind of see how programs that see themselves as competitive with you, would choose another bid competition if they were able to. Because they already perceive that all the bids are going to your gym, and that you gym is bringing all their teams to try and get them.

I think this is what complicates the bid process so much for EP's. If they have a reputation for giving them out to the highest scoring teams... Then the teams that know they can score high will come, and that means $, because these programs often have a lot of teams. But if Gym A knows Gym B always comes and sweeps the bids, then they might choose a different competition. So it becomes a balancing act. How do you get the most teams to come? Because you want to make a profit, AND you want to make sure you keep getting the same, or more bids to give, to keep your profits coming the next year.

In the long run, I like transparency, and the Summit is supposed to be the best of the best. I think I would, personally, like to see Varsity issue criteria for the distribution of paid bids( i.e. highest score) and a range for the distribution of at larges( i.e. division or level winners) and then let EP's use their own discretion to distribute wildcards. They can use their own market strategies there...

 

[TheVipersMom]

Which company is it? I like when comps give out the bids based on merit, for sure. But I'm curious how the numbers will play out this year...because I can kind of see how programs that see themselves as competitive with you, would choose another bid competition if they were able to. Because they already perceive that all the bids are going to your gym, and that you gym is bringing all their teams to try and get them.

I think this is what complicates the bid process so much for EP's. If they have a reputation for giving them out to the highest scoring teams... Then the teams that know they can score high will come, and that means $, because these programs often have a lot of teams. But if Gym A knows Gym B always comes and sweeps the bids, then they might choose a different competition. So it becomes a balancing act. How do you get the most teams to come? Because you want to make a profit, AND you want to make sure you keep getting the same, or more bids to give, to keep your profits coming the next year.

In the long run, I like transparency, and the Summit is supposed to be the best of the best. I think I would, personally, like to see Varsity issue criteria for the distribution of paid bids( i.e. highest score) and a range for the distribution of at larges( i.e. division or level winners) and then let EP's use their own discretion to distribute wildcards. They can use their own market strategies there...

it is athletics in Tulsa, OK. We always did a more local athletics but we switched to that one two seasons ago because of the bids offered. Twist and Shout has been there both seasons (and even prior to us coming) as well as cheer eclipse. I know they have received at large bids. Cheer Athletics did not come two seasons ago afik but came last season with their more known plano teams and austin and frisco teams (like jags, sassy cats, wonder cats) ... i know cougars and sassy cats did very well and were the second highest scores in their levels so they still received at large bids.

i like it because if you are high point you are guaranteed and at large or paid bid, plus a couple runner ups for high point can still get at large bids. they post and send scores to the coaches of all divisions on day 1 so everyone knows where they stand!

Here is a link to awards, you can see it's mainly the gyms I mentioned if you scroll down to specialty awards

https://dl.boxcloud.com/d/1/fRh1Crf...fLSGU7EPp_kzy8R-0rglC9hfA1Lol1_DR64./download