All-Star Summit Scoring Screw Up

[darlingsmomx4]

IMO, this years Summit was very poorly run.... it seems like a day 2 scores were wacky and then they announced a wrong winner in a division, they mixed up placements in two other divisions and I saw a team drop a stunt and they still took 5th place even though teams behind them had zero deduction days and more difficulty (there day 1 was 12th place). I think all of the scores need to be reviewed and apologies made... especially for the team that had their banner and Summit rings taken away. It was just so disappointing. I also think that they were bad about scoring the large gyms higher or pulling them up day 2 as to not cause additional issues. Plus making teams sit in a hot sticky outdoor baseball diamond to announce finalists was crazy especially when it started raining on 400.00 uniforms! Varsity really dropped the ball on this one. They need to make the D1 scores transparent also and post the actual scores but then we would be able to see all the NUMEROUS mistakes made!!! Rant over!


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[CheerBank]

These issues have been discussed and dissected so many times this past week on all avenues of social media including here. Changes were made for this weekend’s D2 Summit and hopefully it will run much more smoothly. Sorry your athlete’s experience last weekend had to be the learning curve!

 

[ACEDAD]

IMO, this years Summit was very poorly run.... it seems like a day 2 scores were wacky and then they announced a wrong winner in a division, they mixed up placements in two other divisions and I saw a team drop a stunt and they still took 5th place even though teams behind them had zero deduction days and more difficulty (there day 1 was 12th place). I think all of the scores need to be reviewed and apologies made... especially for the team that had their banner and Summit rings taken away. It was just so disappointing. I also think that they were bad about scoring the large gyms higher or pulling them up day 2 as to not cause additional issues. Plus making teams sit in a hot sticky outdoor baseball diamond to announce finalists was crazy especially when it started raining on 400.00 uniforms! Varsity really dropped the ball on this one. They need to make the D1 scores transparent also and post the actual scores but then we would be able to see all the NUMEROUS mistakes made!!! Rant over!


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I was able to get the vast majority of scoresheets for Summit and posted them on my twitter account. Hope you can find what you need. Varsity relented and is posting scores for D2 this week on their site. I hope they will keep doing it for all events.

 

[Adrirocks]

I was able to get the vast majority of scoresheets for Summit and posted them on my twitter account. Hope you can find what you need. Varsity relented and is posting scores for D2 this week on their site. I hope they will keep doing it for all events.

Do you think that Varsity will keep this up (i.e is this a permeant change) or do you think that they are hoping that public pressure dies down over the summer and they can go back to withholding scores?

 

[Keep_Believing]

They don't want people unfollowing them to follow Bill. Having Bill post scores was genius! LOL

 

[Lablover]

So a team was in 12th place with a hit routine and then dropped a stunt the second day and moved to 5th? What division was it in?

 

[ACEDAD]

Do you think that Varsity will keep this up (i.e is this a permeant change) or do you think that they are hoping that public pressure dies down over the summer and they can go back to withholding scores?

Not sure. Hope they keep it up, obviously. If they don’t, and I’m not dead, I’ll publish again.

 

[darlingsmomx4]

I was able to get the vast majority of scoresheets for Summit and posted them on my twitter account. Hope you can find what you need. Varsity relented and is posting scores for D2 this week on their site. I hope they will keep doing it for all events.

How do I find your twitter page? Thanks!!


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[Emily]

How do I find your twitter page? Thanks!!


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Here is the link (it's @billpresson on twitter)

 

[FamUsM0m]

IMO, this years Summit was very poorly run.... it seems like a day 2 scores were wacky and then they announced a wrong winner in a division, they mixed up placements in two other divisions and I saw a team drop a stunt and they still took 5th place even though teams behind them had zero deduction days and more difficulty (there day 1 was 12th place). I think all of the scores need to be reviewed and apologies made... especially for the team that had their banner and Summit rings taken away. It was just so disappointing. I also think that they were bad about scoring the large gyms higher or pulling them up day 2 as to not cause additional issues. Plus making teams sit in a hot sticky outdoor baseball diamond to announce finalists was crazy especially when it started raining on 400.00 uniforms! Varsity really dropped the ball on this one. They need to make the D1 scores transparent also and post the actual scores but then we would be able to see all the NUMEROUS mistakes made!!! Rant over!


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When you say this other team had more difficulty, what are you basing that on? It's more than just difficulty that is on the score sheet. It's cleanliness, drivers, execution, etc. I feel like we have this discussion year after year (right around this time) about how ABC is better than DEF but in all actuality, DEF is way cleaner, hits all the drivers, hits every point of the score sheet, etc. We also have to remember that until scores do become transparent, this is still a subjective sport. One judge is going to score differently than another.

 

[alpaca]

Not sure. Hope they keep it up, obviously. If they don’t, and I’m not dead, I’ll publish again.

What is the best way to contact Varsity and let them know that we want scores released at all comps?

 

[ACEDAD]

What is the best way to contact Varsity and let them know that we want scores released at all comps?

Not sure of the best. But you could contact your regional rep, if you’re with a gym. Or you could find my tweet to @VarsityAllStar where I thanked them last night and connect that way.

 

[BlueCat]

When you say this other team had more difficulty, what are you basing that on? It's more than just difficulty that is on the score sheet. It's cleanliness, drivers, execution, etc. I feel like we have this discussion year after year (right around this time) about how ABC is better than DEF but in all actuality, DEF is way cleaner, hits all the drivers, hits every point of the score sheet, etc. We also have to remember that until scores do become transparent, this is still a subjective sport. One judge is going to score differently than another.

Scoring could be completely transparent, and judging will still be subjective. Those are not mutually exclusive.

(This part is basically agreeing with you). Just because someone says "I think ABC has a harder routine than XYZ" doesn't automatically make it true. Believe or not, judges are better at judging routines than most people in the stands. They are right FAR more often than they are given credit for. Are mistakes made? Absolutely. Are teams routinely "screwed because of biased judging/magic uniforms/EP WANTS this team to win/etc" No, they are not. In fairness, it has taken a LONG time for me to come around to that view.

At least 95% of the time when we feel scoring was wrong, after time passes and we review, we see things closer to what the judges scored originally. Not always, but the vast majority of the time rankings are pretty darn accurate given the constraints of live judging at events.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

When you say this other team had more difficulty, what are you basing that on? It's more than just difficulty that is on the score sheet. It's cleanliness, drivers, execution, etc. I feel like we have this discussion year after year (right around this time) about how ABC is better than DEF but in all actuality, DEF is way cleaner, hits all the drivers, hits every point of the score sheet, etc. We also have to remember that until scores do become transparent, this is still a subjective sport. One judge is going to score differently than another.

CP was on a J2 team this year. Our team had a wide range of ages/sizes. At a lot of our competitions, we went up against some teams that had a true J team (meaning the majority were J age and thus size wise bigger). This sometimes gave us as parents the impression that we didn't stand a chance. One of the things our gym does is drill timing and cleanliness. At our last competition, day 1 we looked clean. We had a stunt come down and thus deductions. However, our raw was only .6 from first. Day 2 we hit a great routine. Supposedly our score on Day 2 was the highest in the division. It didn't help us win (floating score and all). But I was still pleased to know that even though we didn't win, our team was given a routine that could win.

All this to say, I trust our coaches to max out the score sheet, give the athletes what they need to win. It's up to the athletes to perform it to the level of winning. You can have the most difficult routine but if it's not clean and sharp, you aren't always going to win. I finally realized this after leaving our former gym. Timing and cleanliness was always an issue. Thus we never stood a chance.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Scoring could be completely transparent, and judging will still be subjective. Those are not mutually exclusive.

(This part is basically agreeing with you). Just because someone says "I think ABC has a harder routine than XYZ" doesn't automatically make it true. Believe or not, judges are better at judging routines than most people in the stands. They are right FAR more often than they are given credit for. Are mistakes made? Absolutely. Are teams routinely "screwed because of biased judging/magic uniforms/EP WANTS this team to win/etc" No, they are not. In fairness, it has taken a LONG time for me to come around to that view.

At least 95% of the time when we feel scoring was wrong, after time passes and we review, we see things closer to what the judges scored originally. Not always, but the vast majority of the time rankings are pretty darn accurate given the constraints of live judging at events.

Brilliant, and so true

This is true of officials in real sports as well. Since Major League baseball implemented instant replay in 2014, the percentage of overturned calls has been roughly 50/50. That's over a sample size of almost 5500 challenges. That tells me two things, one the calls being challenged by teams are the true bang-bang plays that occur in fractions of a second, and two that the guys making $225,000 a year to make decisions in a fraction of a second are right as often as they're wrong.

At the most recent all star competition I attended (December), there was a deduction check, a score check, a video review, and a beg and plead carbon form for coaches to fill out in order to weasel more points out of the scoring system. How many more ways to question people making a couple hundred bucks do we need?